How does the Ludwig 750 db and 300 db Match Up with Remo

[kenshireen1]

I have an old Ludwig snare with the original heads from the 80's with original heads.
Curious how the db rating compare to which remo heads.

Second question: is the snare worth more with the original heads/wire from the 70's or does it not matter?

 

[jptrickster]

The 750 is 7.5 mil. Closest Remo is 7 mil Diplomat. Ludwig made there own heads, they were different structure than Remo. More bounce, little more rubbery like calfskin especially the 60’s and early 70’s Orchestra Batter.
the 300 reso is 3 mil I think Remo is around the same maybe 5 mil. LUdwig still offers a 3 mil clear.
Originality is always good for resale.

 

[Browny]

I have an old Ludwig snare with the original heads from the 80's with original heads.
Curious how the db rating compare to which remo heads.

Second question: is the snare worth more with the original heads/wire from the 70's or does it not matter?

Not quite sure what you mean by 'db', I'm assuming it's some reference to thickness and not decibels.

I'd guess that the '750 db' head is a Diplomat, 7.5mil thick, while the snare side is a typical Ambassador weight 3mil head.

 

[idrum4fun]

I remember the "db" heads. Just marketing! Ludwig's standard coated "medium" is 7.5mil, the same as Remo's Diplomat head. As mentioned above, Ludwig uses a different film from Remo, so it actually plays like a Remo Ambassador. Ludwig's "Heavy" head is 10mil, the same as the Remo Ambassador. The Ludwig 300db snare-side head is 3mil, the same as a Remo, and the same as current Weathermaster X-Thin snare-side head.

I believe that Ludwig is still producing their own heads for their USA-made snare drums, but all other heads are made by Remo.

I still have a NOS Ludwig WM5314 head, which is a coated "Heavy" with a tone ring on the underside. It's pretty much the same as a Remo PS3.

-Mark

 

[Hop]

I gathered up some catalog info for Ludwig and Remo for future reference and have attached it here as a .PDF document, but here's a brief summary for Ludwig.

Ludwig: db-300 Extra thin; db-500 Thin; db-750 Medium; db-1000 Heavy; db-1250 Laminated; db-1400 Extra heavy.

Extra Thin (.003 mil.) Very light weight translucent, ultra-sensitive head, designed for use as a snare head, only.

Medium (.0075 mil.) A medium multi-purpose weight, milk weight, sensitive head, designed for use as a batter head only. This medium weight batter head is standard on outfit snare drums and tom toms, concert toms, timp-toms, timpani, bongos, timbales, tamborines, and practice pads. The tonal response of these heads allows for a wide range of tunings. Bongo heads have permanently formed deep collars.


EDIT: The 1980 catalog identified the following head weight and types: X-Thin = 3-mil; Thin = 5-mil; Medium = 7-mil; Heavy = 10-mil; X-Heavy = 14-mil.

 

[KevinD]

My first MIJ set came with Ludwig db 750 heads..If I recall correctly each had a different color, so maybe the 750 was red??? (I was 10 so, that may be fuzzy)
Too bad each head had pits in them the size of a tennis ball, I still may have one of them around somewhere.

 

[idrum4fun]

I gathered up some catalog info for Ludwig and Remo for future reference and have attached it here as a .PDF document, but here's a brief summary for Ludwig.

Ludwig: db-300 Extra thin; db-500 Thin; db-750 Medium; db-1000 Heavy; db-1250 Laminated; db-1400 Extra heavy.

Extra Thin (.003 mil.) Very light weight translucent, ultra-sensitive head, designed for use as a snare head, only.

Medium (.0075 mil.) A medium multi-purpose weight, milk weight, sensitive head, designed for use as a batter head only. This medium weight batter head is standard on outfit snare drums and tom toms, concert toms, timp-toms, timpani, bongos, timbales, tamborines, and practice pads. The tonal response of these heads allows for a wide range of tunings. Bongo heads have permanently formed deep collars.

Excellent work, Hop! I've already downloaded your PDF file for my references. Well done!

-Mark

 

[Browny]

I gathered up some catalog info for Ludwig and Remo for future reference and have attached it here as a .PDF document, but here's a brief summary for Ludwig.

Ludwig: db-300 Extra thin; db-500 Thin; db-750 Medium; db-1000 Heavy; db-1250 Laminated; db-1400 Extra heavy.

Extra Thin (.003 mil.) Very light weight translucent, ultra-sensitive head, designed for use as a snare head, only.

Medium (.0075 mil.) A medium multi-purpose weight, milk weight, sensitive head, designed for use as a batter head only. This medium weight batter head is standard on outfit snare drums and tom toms, concert toms, timp-toms, timpani, bongos, timbales, tamborines, and practice pads. The tonal response of these heads allows for a wide range of tunings. Bongo heads have permanently formed deep collars.

Think those decimal points are a bit off or they've typed the wrong unit of measurement... should just be 7.5mil & 3mil or 0.0075" & 0.003".

1 mil is a thousandth of an inch (0.0254mm).

0.0075mil is 0.0000075" (0.0001905mm or 0.1905 micron).

Kitchen cling/Glad/plastic wrap is around 0.5mil thick (0.0127mm or 12.7micron). Hair is around 70micron, so 2.8mil or 0.07mm.

 

[kenshireen1]

So is the 750 comparable to the ambassador since both a re medium wieght

 

[Browny]

So is the 750 comparable to the ambassador since both a re medium wieght

'Medium' is a loose term, it's only really 'medium' when compared to the 10mil Ludwig branded 'heavy', even then it doesn't really mean anything.

5mil: Aquarian Conert 5

7mil: Evans Reso 7, Aquarian High Frequency, Attack Microflex

7.5mil: Ludwig Medium, Remo Diplomat, Evans Reso 7 black, Evans Calftone Snare

10mil: Ludwig Heavy, Remo Ambassador, Evans G1/UV1, Aquarian Texture Coated/Classic Clear/Vintage, Attack Proflex/Royal1

12mil: Remo Ambasdador X, Evans G12

14mil: Remo Ambassador X14, Evans G14

 

[Tama CW]

Never knew what the db-750 meant on my Supra's Ludwig batter head. Always assumed it was a full ambassador.

Now this helps explain why it was always a bit too ringy and bright. Tonight, switched over to a remo coated ambassador. Definitely better.

Thanks.

 

[jptrickster]

Original vintage heads are life. All my Ludwig snares are outfitted with them. I've bought snare drums just to harvest those heads, I know its a sickness.
If anyone has nice ones they want to get rid of hit me up.

 

[Hop]

Think those decimal points are a bit off or they've typed the wrong unit of measurement... should just be 7.5mil & 3mil or 0.0075" & 0.003".

It was directly transposed from the catalog information and are not accurate, thanks for clarifying!

EDIT: Ludwig is using the plastic sheet industry term 'mil' which differs from the millimeter unit of measure... so the numbers are accurate.

 

[jptrickster]

Proof reader done f up

 

[Hop]

I was reviewing that sheet I posted up and I was wondering about the figures that Ludwig quoted seemed a bit 'off.' Then I recalled something about the difference in the quality when I created the reference sheet. The industry uses a different measurement scale in plastic sheeting. When stating "mils" they are not reference the millimeter (mm). Therefore, the earlier copy from the 1975 catalog isn't incorrect, it just using the standard from the industry rather than the more widely known mm. Here's an explanation...


How does mil thickness compare to mm (millimeter) and inches? What does mil stand for in measurement?
Plastic sheeting is measured in mils. A mil is a measurement that equals one-thousandth of an inch, or 0.001 inch. One mil also equals 0.0254 mm (millimeter). Thus a mil is not the same thickness as a millimeter. The term "mil" is not an abbreviation but a unit of measure. The chart below gives you an idea of mils to millimeters to inches. An every day trash bag ranges between 1.2 mils and 1.7 mils. A much stronger trash bag that offers better tear resistance is between 3 mils and 6 mils. A credit card is around 30 mils thick while a common deck of playing cards including the box is approximately .75 inches thick or 750 mils.

mil	mm	inch	Item
1	0.0254	0.001
3	0.07619	0.003
6	0.152399	0.006
10	0.254	0.01 1/64 in
15	0.381	0.015
20	0.508	0.02
30	0.762	0.03 1/32 in.	Credit card
60	1.524	0.06 1/16 in
100	2.54	0.1 3//32 in

 

[Browny]

It was directly transposed from the catalog information and are not accurate, thanks for clarifying!

EDIT: Ludwig is using the plastic sheet industry term 'mil' which differs from the millimeter unit of measure... so the numbers are accurate.

View attachment 472023

I was reviewing that sheet I posted up and I was wondering about the figures that Ludwig quoted seemed a bit 'off.' Then I recalled something about the difference in the quality when I created the reference sheet. The industry uses a different measurement scale in plastic sheeting. When stating "mils" they are not reference the millimeter (mm). Therefore, the earlier copy from the 1975 catalog isn't incorrect, it just using the standard from the industry rather than the more widely known mm. Here's an explanation...


How does mil thickness compare to mm (millimeter) and inches? What does mil stand for in measurement?
Plastic sheeting is measured in mils. A mil is a measurement that equals one-thousandth of an inch, or 0.001 inch. One mil also equals 0.0254 mm (millimeter). Thus a mil is not the same thickness as a millimeter. The term "mil" is not an abbreviation but a unit of measure. The chart below gives you an idea of mils to millimeters to inches. An every day trash bag ranges between 1.2 mils and 1.7 mils. A much stronger trash bag that offers better tear resistance is between 3 mils and 6 mils. A credit card is around 30 mils thick while a common deck of playing cards including the box is approximately .75 inches thick or 750 mils.

mil	mm	inch	Item
1	0.0254	0.001
3	0.07619	0.003
6	0.152399	0.006
10	0.254	0.01 1/64 in
15	0.381	0.015
20	0.508	0.02
30	0.762	0.03 1/32 in.	Credit card
60	1.524	0.06 1/16 in
100	2.54	0.1 3//32 in

Yeah, they f***** up. The actual numbers refer to inches, but they've put the wrong unit of measurement in mil at the end.

1mil = 1/1000 inch = 0.0254mm.

My digital vernier calipers are accurate to 2 decimal places of a milimeter. They wouldn't even come close to registering the thicknesses of the medium as per that catalogue, they'd need to go to 4 decimal places.

How the hell could you make a plastic sheet strong enough to withstand drumsticks when it's only 6% of the thickness of a typical garden spider web strand (0.003mm, 0.118mil).

The number they quoted for a medium head is 0.0075mil. That's absurdly thin, absolutely crazy.

I'm Australian, we use the metric system, and I'm an Industrial Designer who works in fields that involve racking equipment which is predominantly within the confines of 19", 21" or 23". Not to mention I play the drums and have owned a few bikes so I get the imperial system, even though its a bit of a clusterf*** and is backwards as all hell. Their issue is nothing to do with millimeters or the metric system.

I reckon they initially had it formatted with the thickness in inches and someone said "hey, change that to mil" but all they did was replace " with mil and forgot to multiply the number by 1,000.

 

[Hop]

Thin and strong... Here's a link to the data sheet for DuPont Teijin Films, Mylar A: Datasheet

Here's a link to CS Hyde a marketer of the film, Mylar A page: Mylar® Polyester Films- DuPont® Mylar® Type A, Optically Clear, Metalized | CS Hyde Company
Datasheet: MYLAR® A (cshyde.com)

 

[kenshireen1]

Thanks for confusing me
To net this out... the 750db is a medium head according to Ludwig.
I understand there is a difference between Mil and MM.
So, given the above, what is the actual MM thickness of the 750db?

 

[Hop]

So, given the above, what is the actual MM thickness of the 750db?

1Mil = 0.0254mm

7.5 x 0.0254 = 0.1905mm

 

[jptrickster]

Ludwig 750= 7.5 mil
Remo ambassador = 10 mil