Unfortunately I tend to be OCD so if not careful I go down crazy rabbit holes for no good reason. I think in the end a lot of it does not matter. It is our perception that is causing all the fuss. Or a fear, or something else. I posted a thread one time about if you care if all your gear matches (all of same brand). Is this really important? Maybe if you endorse Brand X or have some type of agreement with a company, but otherwise? Yet that is the type thing that will drive me crazy. Yamaha drums with a Ludwig snare using Tama hardware and a DW pedal???? Aghhhhhhhhh! But what matters? The sound, right? The drum or cymbal does not care what brand hardware it is mounted on. The snare does not care how many vent holes the tom has. Like was said, put on a blindfold, can you name which instrument has which feature? We are funny, no?
![[DFO] Drum Forum](https://www.drumforum.org/styles/drumforum/xenforo/logo.png){kind=logo}
How many “princess and the pea” details on drums people willing to quibble over?
- Thread starter Lamontsdad
- Start date
Not all preferences are based on sound. I like snare wires held on with ribbon because I’ve never had it break unexpectedly like cord, or had troubles with it slipping like plastic straps. Its a reliability preference to allow the focus to be elsewhere.
Similarly the zero to three ventholes, to me, is a question of feel more than sound. Just like your discussion on Rogers “special sauce” there are infinite variations that can have some sort of effect, none of which on their own make a drum enjoyable or not, but in the right combination can be the difference between magic and misery.
Similarly the zero to three ventholes, to me, is a question of feel more than sound. Just like your discussion on Rogers “special sauce” there are infinite variations that can have some sort of effect, none of which on their own make a drum enjoyable or not, but in the right combination can be the difference between magic and misery.
karlcrafton
Well-Known Member
We have a good minutiae discussion about cord and ribbon going on....
Last edited:
For me I notice how things are setup. I am a stickler for a tidy setup. Many on these sites will look at a high end kit and go gaga over it even though the setup is a mess with no or little thought put into its build.
Lamontsdad
DFO Star
That’s a usability issue.
Some guys even have “ gasp “ laundry in their pics !!!!
Lamontsdad
DFO Star
You’d go nuts with me, then LOL
Lamontsdad
DFO Star
Proudly!
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2020
- Messages
- 3,308
- Reaction score
- 6,018
I like some things because they make a difference in sound and I like other things because they make a difference to me. The only thing that really matters is that I have what matters to me. Everyone else should have what matters to them. If you sit down behind your drums and always think "Gee, I wish they were XYZ...", then do your darndest to make them XYZ.
JDA
DFO Star
Recite the princess and the Pea story
someone.
someone.
CC Cirillo
DFO Master
I don’t know about the rest of you unrefined members of the hoi polloi, but I can hear the difference between the sound of the gossamer flutter of an angel’s wings as it lands on a pinhead versus a thumbtack.
Drums? Not as much.
Drums? Not as much.
drums1225
Very well Known Member
I think too many drummers (and musicians in general, but definitely drummers) obsess over many things that really don't affect sound noticeably, especially to the end listener. Sound is affected FAR more by significant variables, such as room acoustics, heads, tuning, sticks, (if applicable) mics and monitoring, and most of all, the player. All the relatively insignificant things (vent holes, shell material, virgin bass drums, suspension mounts) don't mean a THING to anyone but drum-geeks.
Before the internet, NONE of this stuff mattered to me at all. I was blissfully ignorant of many gear-related things and I got along more than fine. I owned two sets of high quality drums and knew how to tune them to sound really good. I was focused on drum-MING, not drum gear. Then, along came the internet, and I started participating in online discussions about drums. That was the end of my blissful ignorance, and my introduction to drum-geekdom, followed by Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Anyway, I digress.
There's not a single drummer on this group (or anywhere, for that matter) that, in a blind test, could confidently and consistently identify the shell material of a drum solely from a sound recording. I'd bet the same would be true for virgin bass drum vs non; stand mounted toms vs. bass drum mounted toms; Remo vs Evans; Zildjian vs Sabian vs Paiste vs Meinl, etc.
WE may like to geek out over this stuff, but I don't pretend it makes a REAL difference to anyone.
Before the internet, NONE of this stuff mattered to me at all. I was blissfully ignorant of many gear-related things and I got along more than fine. I owned two sets of high quality drums and knew how to tune them to sound really good. I was focused on drum-MING, not drum gear. Then, along came the internet, and I started participating in online discussions about drums. That was the end of my blissful ignorance, and my introduction to drum-geekdom, followed by Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Anyway, I digress.
There's not a single drummer on this group (or anywhere, for that matter) that, in a blind test, could confidently and consistently identify the shell material of a drum solely from a sound recording. I'd bet the same would be true for virgin bass drum vs non; stand mounted toms vs. bass drum mounted toms; Remo vs Evans; Zildjian vs Sabian vs Paiste vs Meinl, etc.
WE may like to geek out over this stuff, but I don't pretend it makes a REAL difference to anyone.
"How many “princess and the pea” details on drums people willing to quibble over?" .... uh, all of them of course!
I enjoy discussing the minutiae... I think about all these things and love to hear others opinions. However, at the end of the day it just sounds like a snare!!!!
I enjoy discussing the minutiae... I think about all these things and love to hear others opinions. However, at the end of the day it just sounds like a snare!!!!
The one teensy detail I can hear almost every time is whether my snare has a batter head on it while I am playing it. What can I say, I’m a nit picky guy.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2020
- Messages
- 3,308
- Reaction score
- 6,018
Hear those differences in a recording? No way — the recording process (even the very best ones) changes the actual live sound far too much. But live in the room if I'm the player? Heads* and cymbals — for sure. Shell material and tom mounting — maybe. And remember, the only person any of this has to make a difference to is you, the drummer.
*If I tuned them.
Tama CW
DFO Master
I admit I am one of those "quibblers." But, only in regards to figuring out what to pay for an item or how much to sell it for. There HAS to be a price differential
for collectible or semi-collectible items not having all their original features and/or parts. And just because you might not care about it for the decades you own an item,
it will matter come sale time. Some of us like to bring back a drum to OEM authenticity....without breaking the bank. I'll do that and sell off the incorrect parts. I've done a number
tension rod swaps on vintage drums......gone out and found the correct snare wires.....dutifully replace the proper 1" fibered packing tape on all my 1980's Tama snares. That's how they came.
Your keystone '64 Supra doesn't have to have orig heads, snare wires, cob hoops, red felt muffler, and correct tension rods with brass washers. But one with all those bells and whistles is worth $100-$250
more than one that doesn't have them.....even if they sound identical. Hey, don't worry about this during your ownership. It doesn't come into play.....yet.
I've butted heads with MOST of the Old K guys on their FB forum when it came to edge dents/dings, flea bites, key holes, bell hole cracks, and other "small" flaws. The majority of them say none of that
stuff matters, these are old cymbals, it's just expected typical wear and tear. I bet that works good when they sell....lol. But then flip it around when they're buying....look no flaws. Sure they're small flaws. And for sure they devalue the cymbal somewhat when you're talking $600-$3000 for clean examples. That "inconsequential" bell hole crack might be a $200 item on a $2000 old K. A seasoned buyer typically won't
let it go by.....unless they miss it. And this still applies to $200 old A's too. Might devalue the cymbal to $175. I get that it still plays the same despite small flaws. But there has to be a price
difference from a totally clean one. Pricing on drum gear is not a step function........it's a continuous function. If you're a long time owner who is going to pass along your gear to someone in the
family or donate it.....then none of this matters.
for collectible or semi-collectible items not having all their original features and/or parts. And just because you might not care about it for the decades you own an item,
it will matter come sale time. Some of us like to bring back a drum to OEM authenticity....without breaking the bank. I'll do that and sell off the incorrect parts. I've done a number
tension rod swaps on vintage drums......gone out and found the correct snare wires.....dutifully replace the proper 1" fibered packing tape on all my 1980's Tama snares. That's how they came.
Your keystone '64 Supra doesn't have to have orig heads, snare wires, cob hoops, red felt muffler, and correct tension rods with brass washers. But one with all those bells and whistles is worth $100-$250
more than one that doesn't have them.....even if they sound identical. Hey, don't worry about this during your ownership. It doesn't come into play.....yet.
I've butted heads with MOST of the Old K guys on their FB forum when it came to edge dents/dings, flea bites, key holes, bell hole cracks, and other "small" flaws. The majority of them say none of that
stuff matters, these are old cymbals, it's just expected typical wear and tear. I bet that works good when they sell....lol. But then flip it around when they're buying....look no flaws. Sure they're small flaws. And for sure they devalue the cymbal somewhat when you're talking $600-$3000 for clean examples. That "inconsequential" bell hole crack might be a $200 item on a $2000 old K. A seasoned buyer typically won't
let it go by.....unless they miss it. And this still applies to $200 old A's too. Might devalue the cymbal to $175. I get that it still plays the same despite small flaws. But there has to be a price
difference from a totally clean one. Pricing on drum gear is not a step function........it's a continuous function. If you're a long time owner who is going to pass along your gear to someone in the
family or donate it.....then none of this matters.
Last edited:
Cauldronics
DFO Star
Nah, no one can reliably hear those infinitesimal differences between things like cord vs straps and on and on. That's not what drummers on a forum truly care about... it's just a thing to discuss from a collector/gear tweaker point of view. In the back of the mind, we all know that tiny detail doesn't really make a difference to how we'll perform at our next gig... it can for those who are mentally over-invested in the detail, but they often care more about collecting and restoring gear more than actually playing.
Like it was said earlier, I've heard old band practice and gig recordings and can only pick out the kit by remembering (unreliably) how long I was playing the kit during that frame of time. I can rarely tell by the sound of it. And again, that wouldn't be a focus on the details that don't add up to much.
Like it was said earlier, I've heard old band practice and gig recordings and can only pick out the kit by remembering (unreliably) how long I was playing the kit during that frame of time. I can rarely tell by the sound of it. And again, that wouldn't be a focus on the details that don't add up to much.
Matched Gripper
DFO Master
- Joined
- May 28, 2019
- Messages
- 5,098
- Reaction score
- 5,105
But, the real test is, do your rabbit holes have to be in round?
Lamontsdad
DFO Star
Nope.
Phantomlimb777
DFO Veteran
I think multiple things can be true.
repete
This one goes to eleven
I’m not one to quibble. I removed the gaskets on my Ludwig classic maple kit because it looked better without them and they still sounded ok.
