How many here like Intermediate K.Zils?

Formula 602

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They have always been my LEAST favorite…

Old stamps..for the win…..hands down…..to me, the definitive K sound….
 

JDA

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/ in my exp. w/ 14s/ not my favorite as high hats..at all.
but 18s and 20s yes and 16s yes
never been a 15" Intermediate hh owner so can't comment; those were everywhere at one time
I let a light 22 go - 2278g- if was a little heavier I might have kept it
hard no as 14" high hats
@Tama CW has a hardcore heavy 22 Intermediate
that could take down a house : )

I love my 20 (the 18 and 16 both have small tiny body splits but still sound good.
The 20 alone on a acoustic mostly-small jazz gig has sent me over the moon .
Stick for days
I'll never forget it for that and still have it. 1987g . less than 20"

Thing about old Ks is they weren't drum set cymbals they were single orchestral's
so blending into a set in the modern Avedis concept set sense has always been perilous.

Assembled in a set are four strong individuals sometimes no compassion
Notice how Tony was known for 1.
per cymbal set altho his high hats sounded for sure like Intermediates at times; and he had an A left.
So basically one cymbal and hats were Ks.
You stretch beyond that and it's danger waters . Becomes clear that they were meant to be stand alone or in pairs orchestral cymbals
not blendy set function avedis-type cymbals. right up until the plug was pulled they never got that avedis-krupa-drum set concept . it was orchestral cymbals that became a fascinating fluke; that's something drummers need to take into consideration when considering or talking about Ks; diameters and weight; anything else specific set functions and you were are on your own;
that's why they're all rides- rides called in the western sense- to them- they were suspended cymbals .orch. cymbal. pairs. even the 22s. and the few 24s
 
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trashman

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In general, they've been the era from which I've liked the least cymbals that I've played.
A bit too icy and A. Zildjian-like for my taste in K's. (not to imply that I don't like A. Zildjian; quite the contrary)

Having said that, one of the nicest 22" K's I've played was an Intermediate Stamp at Maxwells NYC in 2008. It weighed 2500-ish grams, and was just so well balanced. Tonally, I wouldn't have guessed it was an Intermediate (it sounded older than that), but it was. I remember asking Jesse how much it was ($1800), and being so bummed that I had to leave the shop without it.
I've heard some really sweet Intermediate Stamp hi-hats, too. For hats, I think the cleaner and clearer tone of that era works really well.
 

JDA

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intermediate 14 high hats are High in their own Old K kind-of-way;
New and old stamp didn't have that;
works ok for ride and crashing;
very alive in high hats but depends on time and place
 

JDA

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wait a second. Intermediates have the middle freq. hole.
have Lows have Highs ; mids barely; non-existent +/-
forgot that was on CH page 872 in the Book of Ks.
it's what happens; When low flatter profile; combines with physically high & proud cup; add some nervous chatter lathing. the mids are shoved out
and you have the Intermediate era.
Like all Hi stick and lows.

been a long time since I rock and Krolled.
 
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JDA

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look at them cups; search for the mids they aren't there..


stick n' lows;
which is ok; the surrounding music fills in provides the middle

that's the secret to Intermediates and why they're such a 'stage cymbal (to be done with music)
not near as satisfying at home alone.
There I answered my own question.
 
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TPC

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I had only one - a relatively heavy 20". I think it was 2250 g or so.

Surprisingly mellow, great stick, crashed well, ...

I liked it a lot, but sold it to fund another purchase.
 

JDA

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thread reminded me of the little 13" Intermediate 751g I spotted on reverb -just last year or so- with a teensy mid-body crack.
Bought it and use as a Crash/Splash. Sounds Oriental gong-like.

003.JPG

sometimes Intermediates have a very light Oriental sound flavor to them unlike the other eras so there's that


https://soundcloud.com/jda56%2F2-3a
"thought it might be my last chance to wanna buy/want to afford one; I think it was..."
 
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DB-66

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One of the best 22s I've heard was an intermediate, but I agree that old stamps - specifically in the type III era - have some sort of special sauce. I have some 20" intermediates that are rather nice, and some 14" hats that are really, really good. But here's something that others with more experience can help me out with: why do we treat all intermediates as the same? Yes, they have a single stamp, but from my (rather limited) experience, they also seem to have different hammering and lathing techniques. I have an intermediate that could pass for an old stamp IV if you didn't look at the stamp. Yet my other 20 has the high bell, flat profile and wide pin lathing often seen for this period. I've seen others that almost seem like prototype new stamps. As for the frequency dip, that's something I've heard in some new stamps, too.

I guess what I'm getting at is that stamps and weight can provide some generally characteristic information, but blanket generalizations don't seem to apply to many old Ks. The realm of consistency (meaning that almost all of them are amazing) belongs to some of the independents - namely Spizz and Lauritsen. Perhaps my perception is skewed given that age and demand has dried the well of great old stamp Ks available for purchase. YMMV
 

JDA

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blanket generalizations don't seem to apply to many old Ks.
there's a theme- there's theme's to be made; Sound themes.
Sound generalizations of old III, IV, Int and NS; Almost as if- like the same team/workers thru an era then Stamp changed along with a new crew;
Visually I think with very few exceptions; all are dead ringers for their era (no pun intended)
can't mistake a New Stamp from an Intermediate- I haven't - I own 20 (old new and int) of them- and watched near every one- that has crossed the internet the past 20 or so years;
and can rarely mistake one era for another there's always some tell-tale. I've had those that say they have an Intermediate that looks like a New Stamp; three family's Old40s -late 50s I,II, III, IV- Intermediate 60s- New Stamp into 70s
three styles- oddities within but not that odd.

Old Ks - they weren't that random (as some people think) ; I contend Avedis A's - same time periods- were more random. Or rather "more leeway" was allowed.. Old K team-ethos- was 'strict' - just a hunch..

why the insignia changed precisely the same time the 'build' changed- evolved- is a mystery with a few hunches.
I think it had to do with letterhead change on the company paper. (management_ changed/hands/ different directives given to workers; or some different workers entirely; or could be -as some say machinery and tool evolved; coinciding with an insignia coincidence

if New Stamps could - resemble- be- Old Stamps the world would tilt. Ain't happening.
vice versa or if, Intermediates became Old Stamp 3s and 2s. ain't happening either. There's three builds (leaving out constantinoples)
Old Turkey was set in Stone (pun)

I will say you had 4 stamps plus (if add the a,b.c variants) in the Old Stamp era. That may cause the confusion of build overlap.
But if (those first 4) are seen as 1 Old era' K group; and then Intermediate; and then New Stamp' that wipes overlap out. Maybe that's what confuses some. But I contend, even that (overlap) doesn't exist; maybe it does a little between I and II. but I can't give an inch more given based on my experiences right up to now.
 
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TrickRoll

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You and I talked about this last week. Of the K's that have passed through my hands I've kept the new stamp cymbals. The intermediate stamp cymbals I've had have always had sour overtones and been too heavy - for me.
 

Formula 602

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I imagine everyone has heard the story about how K.Zil ran out of metal at 1 time..and bought up miles and miles of wire from a Turkish phone company..which they then smelted down…..

I believe this is what they used to make intermediates with,as to me,the metal looks different then NS/OS ones….
 

trashman

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In general, they've been the era from which I've liked the least cymbals that I've played.
A bit too icy and A. Zildjian-like for my taste in K's. (not to imply that I don't like A. Zildjian; quite the contrary)

Having said that, one of the nicest 22" K's I've played was an Intermediate Stamp at Maxwells NYC in 2008. It weighed 2500-ish grams, and was just so well balanced. Tonally, I wouldn't have guessed it was an Intermediate (it sounded older than that), but it was. I remember asking Jesse how much it was ($1800), and being so bummed that I had to leave the shop without it.
I've heard some really sweet Intermediate Stamp hi-hats, too. For hats, I think the cleaner and clearer tone of that era works really well.

...I found a photo my friend snapped of me playing that 22" Intermediate Stamp at Maxwell's.
Man, I wish I could reach into that photo, pull that cymbal out of it, and play it again!

Em-at-Maxwell-s.jpg
 
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owr

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One of the few old ks I spent some real time with was a 20" intermediate stamp, medium weight, in that same room. I often regret not buying it.

Admittingly cymbals sounded really good in there IMO, I have a picture somewhere of the ceiling they had, I think it really diffused the small room acoustics and made cymbals sound great.

That Rogers kit aint to shabby either.



...I found a photo my friend snapped of of me playing that 22" Intermediate Stamp at Maxwell's.
Man, I wish I could reach into that photo, pull that cymbal out of it, and play it again!

Em-at-Maxwell-s.jpg
 

Esotericdrums

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I recently got my first intermediate, a 14 orphan 885g to use as a top hat over a 1071g First Stamp.

I dig it, it pairs well with the first stamp.

My 13” New stamps have a woodier stick sound but the intermediate cuts better in louder settings where my 13s get lost.
 

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ZiggyM

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I imagine everyone has heard the story about how K.Zil ran out of metal at 1 time..and bought up miles and miles of wire from a Turkish phone company..which they then smelted down…..

I believe this is what they used to make intermediates with,as to me,the metal looks different then NS/OS ones….

“What you put in decides what comes out”
Quote from my grandfather who held the title Master Smelter on the old coke type blast furnaces, which he did his whole working life. It’s metal in the end, be it an H type steel beam or something that will end up being hit with a wooden stick.
 

jptrickster

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My favs always been the new stamp. To me these were a perfect blend of A and K sound, more consistent.
Intermediate does produce some frightening ungodly tones which work well in some situations, the crashes and hats can be quite satisfying, the rides I’ve had were tough to play and make sound good, to much wash.
 

jmoll

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I had and played some Intermediate Stamps that were very nice. I had three 20" and one 22" over the years, at this moment I only have a 14" hi hat top and I really like it. The other day I was with a good friend that has a really nice 22" too.
 


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