How reliable are cymbal sound files/ video files?

Bronzepie

Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
28
Reaction score
22
Thanks much Bronzepie. On the older files (Matt Bettis) I used two Shure KSM27's. I've since upgraded to two Shure KSM44's overhead. More better.

For the record I've bought some very nice cymbals with no sound files or very crappy files. There's a learning curve for sure.
Cool! Well you sold that cymbal, the only surprise was that it sounded just like the recording. I
 

Bronzepie

Active Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
28
Reaction score
22
Another aspect that doesn’t convey is stick feel. I’d choose a cymbal that “gives back” on rebound and response over perfect sonic qualities. I know I play better on that cymbal regardless of the sound. The sound part is for the listener and the playability is for me the drummer. Some great sounding cymbals will wear you out on a long gig due to the input required for sonic output. This will never come across in a video.
 

Slingwig26

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
354
Reaction score
204
Location
massachusetts
I’d like to say that I’m not calling out any one business in particular. These are just some observations I have made and I have some existential/ethical questions.

Should cymbal retailers that provide sound files be using any EQ/ Compression/plug ins or other forms of sound manipulation? I can hear the compression (and I get it) but how honest of a representation of the cymbal am I getting? At what point is it a disservice to the consumer? How true to life are the sounds we are getting? Yes, there are a lot of other factors at play for that last one but you get my point.

At what point does production value and content creation supersede what this service was originally intended for? Should there be a disclaimer if the sound was edited/manipulated?

If I use Photoshop to edit a a picture of the sparkle wrap on my Gretsch so there is more saturation of color for a sale on Reverb that wouldn’t go over very well. Right?

I’ve ordered a few new cymbals online since Covid and they are not even close to the sound files. Now, by no means are They bad sounding cymbals, but for me to attempt to recreate the soundfile from in the video there would (without a doubt) have to be certain frequencies boosted and others eliminated in post.

I am genuinely curious what you think. Should retailers pull the curtain back a bit on their audio editing process? Maybe offer up the unedited dry file too? Do any retailers state on their websites that they don’t edit their files? Heck, a lot of sound files listed here on DFO will even state that no compression or eq was used.

Am I way off base here with my $0.02?
Are they Paiste?
Their soundfiles are pretty accurate.
 

Corbin L Douthitt

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
196
Reaction score
87
Location
Texas
You make an important point. Even when buying a cymbal in person, it helps to bring a cymbal that you know, and like, with you for reference when checking out a cymbal that you are thinking about buying.
It can sound good alone... but NOT play well with what you have,, learned that the hard way.. bring a new cymbal to a gig, and end up with it in the bag all nite- shoulda played it at home with other cymbals.
 

Gcort49

Very well Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
760
Reaction score
228
Location
Atlanta South
I always find Memphis Drum YouTube videos are excellent in sound, which, IMO, enhances/embellishes the true cymbal. I too asked Memphis Drum what mics are used and how are they positioned, etc, because they sounded so good.
They replied, "it is proprietary information", and they would not release it to the public...
I thought it was not a good way to answer a prospective customer
 

Pibroch

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
300
Reaction score
210
Location
Australia
I always find Memphis Drum YouTube videos are excellent in sound, which, IMO, enhances/embellishes the true cymbal. I too asked Memphis Drum what mics are used and how are they positioned, etc, because they sounded so good.
They replied, "it is proprietary information", and they would not release it to the public...
I thought it was not a good way to answer a prospective customer
I suspect MDS management think are so big they can afford to use a bulldozer approach to profit making. That being said, a number of years ago I was making some excellent cymbal purchases from them, based on their demo videos.
 

shiek_yerbouti

Very well Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
1,096
Reaction score
368
I’ll tell you something that worked out really well for me. I have a set of Istanbul Mehmet Traditionals that I love - a Ride and Thin Crashes as well as the 14” Hat Trio. I really wanted a larger pair of hats. I found a pair from Hazelshould that I fell in love with. What I was hearing in the soundfile was what I really wanted.

My kit at home is always set up with mics so I can practice along with recordings. I set up all my Mehmets and played the soundfile from Hazelshould through my headphones along with my mic’d cymbals. I played my cymbals along with Jerry’s recording so I could hear how they all sounded together and right off the bat I knew I had found the right pair. That was a pair of 16” Mehmet Nostalgia hats and they really are perfect for me. I could tell from the recording how well everything was going to fit together - and it does. I was also pretty surprised that it was the 16” and not the 15” hats that I wanted. They are now my favorite hats (except for maybe my Paiste “15 DE Hats :) ).
 

853guy

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
54
I always find Memphis Drum YouTube videos are excellent in sound, which, IMO, enhances/embellishes the true cymbal. I too asked Memphis Drum what mics are used and how are they positioned, etc, because they sounded so good.
They replied, "it is proprietary information", and they would not release it to the public...
I thought it was not a good way to answer a prospective customer
So you didn't make a purchase?

The MDS videos are framed, lit, edited and recorded probably as well as anyone offering online video demos can hope to achieve. They offer a full-range representation of the cymbal in question in the context of the kit (which is pretty much the same video-to-video), without resorting to over-miking, over-production or too much room sound - they've chosen their compromises and stuck to them.

They provide weights of every cymbal they demo, and ensure you can buy the exact cymbal you hear in the video.

They also have drummers who can play with dynamics, consistency, feel and a sense of touch (some are better than others, granted), and will often crash rides and ride crashes like many of us do in real-life gig/studio situations.

They've been putting them up on YouTube for over a decade.

For free.

As an entitled consumer I can think of any number of ways online retailers can improve the ways I'd like them to pander to my sensibilities.

As a business owner, I think the massive investment MDS has made in producing them - while guarding their methodology - is both highly commendable and highly understandable, given the consistency of their approach, that they were one of (if not) the first to do so, and the shop is filled with knowledgeable staff such that a phone call or email couldn't fail to resolve any problem encountered.

Yet we bitch and moan because they won't reveal their methods, which have resulted in thousands of relatively helpful videos they've provided for free - irrespective of the fact many drummers who watch the videos to inform purchasing decisions will never, ever purchase a single thing from them.

Honestly, sometimes I'm amazed we forget the first rule of business is to make a profit.

Best,

853guy
 

Gcort49

Very well Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
760
Reaction score
228
Location
Atlanta South
So you didn't make a purchase?

The MDS videos are framed, lit, edited and recorded probably as well as anyone offering online video demos can hope to achieve. They offer a full-range representation of the cymbal in question in the context of the kit (which is pretty much the same video-to-video), without resorting to over-miking, over-production or too much room sound - they've chosen their compromises and stuck to them.

They provide weights of every cymbal they demo, and ensure you can buy the exact cymbal you hear in the video.

They also have drummers who can play with dynamics, consistency, feel and a sense of touch (some are better than others, granted), and will often crash rides and ride crashes like many of us do in real-life gig/studio situations.

They've been putting them up on YouTube for over a decade.

For free.

As an entitled consumer I can think of any number of ways online retailers can improve the ways I'd like them to pander to my sensibilities.

As a business owner, I think the massive investment MDS has made in producing them - while guarding their methodology - is both highly commendable and highly understandable, given the consistency of their approach, that they were one of (if not) the first to do so, and the shop is filled with knowledgeable staff such that a phone call or email couldn't fail to resolve any problem encountered.

Yet we bitch and moan because they won't reveal their methods, which have resulted in thousands of relatively helpful videos they've provided for free - irrespective of the fact many drummers who watch the videos to inform purchasing decisions will never, ever purchase a single thing from them.

Honestly, sometimes I'm amazed we forget the first rule of business is to make a profit.

Best,

853guy
No...Never purchased from them, and never will. There are better and more trust worthy on-line dealers I have given MUCH business to. Namely, Hazelshould and Cymbals Only. Both Gerry and Tony have always been gracious in answering questions, whether they make a sale or not, they 'talk' to their customers...
 

853guy

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
54
No...Never purchased from them, and never will. There are better and more trust worthy on-line dealers I have given MUCH business to. Namely, Hazelshould and Cymbals Only. Both Gerry and Tony have always been gracious in answering questions, whether they make a sale or not, they 'talk' to their customers...
Well, that's the beauty of the many options we have, right?

Of course, it would be foolish to assume that because your experience with Hazelshould and Cymbals Only has been positive and your experience with Memphis was negative, it therefore must always be true that your experience will be shared by everyone else.

In fact, given the elevated levels of modern consumer expectations, it's just as likely to be the reverse.

Best,

853guy

P.S. In my personal opinion, I don't consider CymbalsOnly willingness to reveal that their sound files were captured using a "Digital Hard Disk" to be of any more utility value to a prospective customer, than MDS unwillingness to reveal their methodology. Again, we takes our money, we makes our choice.
 
Last edited:

Pibroch

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
300
Reaction score
210
Location
Australia
No...Never purchased from them, and never will. There are better and more trust worthy on-line dealers I have given MUCH business to. Namely, Hazelshould and Cymbals Only. Both Gerry and Tony have always been gracious in answering questions, whether they make a sale or not, they 'talk' to their customers...
Same here. I mainly deal with Gerry and Tony too and like their sound files (and never again with MDS for multiple customer service reasons, the detailing of which would be too OT).
 

shiek_yerbouti

Very well Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
1,096
Reaction score
368
Honestly, I don't care which mics they used. Did they provide a clear accurate representation of the cymbal or not is all I care about.

The average consumer could not tell the difference between a Shure, AKG or even a Telefunken in this scenario. And then there are pre-amps and an entire signal chain with knobs and settings that most people can't really discern unless you are there in the room and see what's happening. The position of the mics can change everything! So many different variables go into the sound.

Do you think they gave a fair and reasonable representation or not is all that matters. Do you have something that has captured enough details to make a decision? The equipment becomes kind of irrelevant.
 

Fibes

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
66
Reaction score
55
What annoys me is when a site puts up a demo of a drum kit and the guy demoing it feels a need to show that he can fly around the kit at 500bpm the whole time with cymbals constantly crashing

or you want to listen to a jazz/thin/light ride and the guy is bashing it like a metal head. Pointless, unless metal drummers secretly buy jazz rides to use as crash cymbals...
 

Fibes

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
66
Reaction score
55
Same here. I mainly deal with Gerry and Tony too and like their sound files (and never again with MDS for multiple customer service reasons, the detailing of which would be too OT).
Yup - I do little biz with Tony as well as everyone else I've mentioned. His rivet selection is outstanding. The Bosphorus rivets are exquisite.
 


Top