I got some 70's New Beats, but is the top hi-hat keyholed as I am seeing?

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jaymandude

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Great advice so far...Electrical tape will work - could get a little chewed up and nasty after a while I guess, but plenty of guys do it. I picked up the REMO Quick Lock Clutch last year and I love it. The pics don't show it, but it has a smooth post, NOT threaded. Smooth, clean, easy to use - no need for tape all over it. Last clutch I'll ever need. I think Gibraltar makes a version as well...

Totally ^. What the original posted should be aware of is for the LONGEST time, all hi hat clutches were threaded. SO it was inevitable that the top cymbal was going to keyhole. For me, personally ? it's a sign that it's been played and likely has some good mojo. Seen a lot of gigs. I love that tho.

If they sound good to you you'll be fine...
 

Johnny D

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Any chance this is an early April Fool's thread? I'll bite though.

Hole could be "faintly" ovaled....which would be very normal for 40 yrs of use. My New Beats I bought new in the early 70's and both hats show very faint ovaling even though I was good about felts and plastic bottom cup. But a few years back I noted my 1984 Tama hi hat plastic protector wore through and the bottom cymbal was getting direct metal to metal contact with the shaft. Fixed it.

Measure the 1/2" hole (12.7 mm) in different directions. If there's any variation above 1/2" then some faint wear. That's not considered key holed. And few buyers would have any issue with your top cymbal bell hole.

Ideally both of your new beat hats have the hollow Zildjian ink logo. Though with polishing that will often disappear along with the "new beat" ink stamps. New Beat tops and bottoms will usually have a 300-500 gm weight spread....typically 800-1050 gm top / 1150-1500 gm bottom. If your cymbals have similar toning, similar labels, and a normal weight difference, they are probably an orig pair of New Beats. At some point Zildjian was also stamping the top cymbal as "top" or "new beat." A put together pair that don't quite match would be worth slightly less than an original pairing. Depending on how clean or beat up a New Beat 14" pair is....they can run from $80 to $150. And that's based on the remaining original brilliance of the cymbals, marks and cuts, clarity of ink stamps, and the weightings.

https://black.net.nz/avedis/new-beats.html

You can read up in more detail and accuracy on New Beat hi hats by reading Zenstat's article above.
Well said, CW...

I'll just add (and CW has intimated this) that any pair of A. Zildjian Hi Hats with a medium thin to medium weight top and heavy bottom is a "legit" set of New Beats, regardless of what it says on the cymbals. In other words: don't get hung up on what's printed on the cymbals. If there's a good weight spread between the top and bottom cymbals, and they sound good, feel good, have a clean, and pronounced "chick" sound, then you have yourself a set of New Beats. And $120 for a nice set of 70s New Beats is a good deal.

The magic of New Beats happens when there's a good weight spread between cymbals. It's that simple. Even during the 80s, 90s and 2000s, when A's were too heavy and clangy as an overall product range, you could almost always find a good pair of New Beats. We used to say (jokingly, of course), "It's almost impossible to f*& up New Beats!" :)
 

bonecock

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Any chance this is an early April Fool's thread? I'll bite though.

Hole could be "faintly" ovaled....which would be very normal for 40 yrs of use. My New Beats I bought new in the early 70's and both hats show very faint ovaling even though I was good about felts and plastic bottom cup. But a few years back I noted my 1984 Tama hi hat plastic protector wore through and the bottom cymbal was getting direct metal to metal contact with the shaft. Fixed it. And that's a smooth vertical shaft performing that wear.

Measure the 1/2" hole (12.7 mm) in different directions. If there's any variation above 1/2" then some faint wear. That's not considered key holed. And few buyers would have any issue with your top cymbal bell hole.

Ideally both of your new beat hats have the hollow Zildjian ink logo. Though with polishing that will often disappear along with the "new beat" ink stamps. New Beat tops and bottoms will usually have a 300-500 gm weight spread....typically 800-1050 gm top / 1150-1500 gm bottom. If your cymbals have similar toning, similar labels, and a normal weight difference, they are probably an orig pair of New Beats. At some point Zildjian was also stamping the top cymbal as "top" or "new beat." A put together pair that don't quite match would be worth slightly less than an original pairing. Depending on how clean or beat up a New Beat 14" pair is....they can run from $80 to $150. And that's based on the remaining original brilliance of the cymbals, marks and cuts, clarity of ink stamps, and the weightings.

https://black.net.nz/avedis/new-beats.html

You can read up in more detail and accuracy on New Beat hi hats by reading Zenstat's article above.
Do you think I should polish these bad boys? They both have the same hollow logo on the inside and the tops are stamped without the triangle of three dots. I believe they are a matching pair but they are not marked for the top nor bottom hat. The hat pictured is what I believe to be the top, it feels thinner than the hat I am using on the bottom.
 

bonecock

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Totally ^. What the original posted should be aware of is for the LONGEST time, all hi hat clutches were threaded. SO it was inevitable that the top cymbal was going to keyhole. For me, personally ? it's a sign that it's been played and likely has some good mojo. Seen a lot of gigs. I love that tho.

If they sound good to you you'll be fine...
Damn I didnt think about that... They sound good to me, especially in recordings, they sound very delicate in a good for lack of a better word. I needed some opinions because this is the first time I've went vintage and while I will definitely buy vintage again, I was worried for how many years these boys got in em.
 

bonecock

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No it's not a Car you're going to drive in the rain. It's least of your concerns. Soap and water once. Then learn................to play.....them
Will soap and water get rid of the patina? Or at least I think that's what that greening is. Not saying I want to get rid of it, I think it looks nice. But I can definitely see some finger grease on it. As for my other cymbals, should I clean em? This is my ride.
 

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bonecock

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nO
Just wash and start anew.
get rid of whomever touched them prior to you........
Cymbals naturally organically, are supposed to Age It's a Good Thing..
What kinda soap do you recommend?
 

PressRoll

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Regular Dawn dish soap is fine. I would stay away from anything that has citrus in it just in case it would mess with the patina.
 

JDA

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What kinda soap do you recommend?
Nothing special. I've used Tide anything.

let me tell you something.
The Cymbals will outlast you.

Ok? Soap.
You're worrying where there's no worrying.
Cymbals will outlast You.

quit typing on the phone and get them down to the laundry tubs. It's a ritual all drummers must go thru
Don't use anything metal on them, use a nylon brush, nothing abrasive.
Remember Shiny cymbals won't make you play any better you just want to get the previous owners scent off them
 
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bonecock

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Nothing special. I've used Tide anything.

let me tell you something.
The Cymbals will outlast you.

Ok? Soap.
You're worrying where there's no worrying.
Cymbals will outlast You.

quit typing on the phone and get them down to the laundry tubs. It's a ritual all drummers must go thru
Don't use anything metal on them, use a nylon brush, nothing abrasive.
Remember Shiny cymbals won't make you play any better you just want to get the previous owners scent off them
Damn this is some serious business.. alright I'm off. Thanks all for the help
 
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Tama CW

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If you like....weigh them up. If they are only 50-150 gms apart, more than likely just a normal matched pair of Zildjian hats from the late 1970's. The Hollow logos look cool. Anyone trying to harshly or aggressively clean up cymbals will usually make them look worse. One of the charms of older cymbals is that they mellow out and get darker and drier. The only time that's bad is when they turn so deep brown or bordering on burnt black, that they almost start to sound flat....at least on very thin cymbals. You should post the weights.
 
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Johnny D

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Why do you want to clean them? What's the point? I'm not being a smart ass... I'm just curious. They're vintage and have a vibe, and part of the vibe is the metal aging and the natural patina. When I'm looking for used/vintage cymbals, I narrow my search to only cymbals with a patina. They tend to have more character.

As @Tama CW said, cleaning them will most likely make them look worse. If you haven't already cleaned them, I'd reconsider.
 

Iristone

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If you'd like to remove the patina then the Sabian or Paiste cleaners will work.
I'm pretty much utilitarian about it ... if there's a rust spot or so I try to clean it. Yours don't seem to be as rusted as some cymbal I've bought (and cleaned) recently... ;-)
 

bonecock

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If you like....weigh them up. If they are only 50-150 gms apart, more than likely just a normal matched pair of Zildjian hats from the late 1970's. The Hollow logos look cool. Anyone trying to harshly or aggressively clean up cymbals will usually make them look worse. One of the charms of older cymbals is that they mellow out and get darker and drier. The only time that's bad is when they turn so deep brown or bordering on burnt black, that they almost start to sound flat....at least on very thin cymbals. You should post the weights.
Have any DIY ways to weigh them? Tried my scale for just weighing myself and it wouldn't pick up the top cymbal?

**EDIT** Seeing now on amazon how cheap food scales are I will probably get one once all this coronavirus stuff blows over.
 
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bonecock

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Why do you want to clean them? What's the point? I'm not being a smart ass... I'm just curious. They're vintage and have a vibe, and part of the vibe is the metal aging and the natural patina. When I'm looking for used/vintage cymbals, I narrow my search to only cymbals with a patina. They tend to have more character.

As @Tama CW said, cleaning them will most likely make them look worse. If you haven't already cleaned them, I'd reconsider.
I just didn't know whether to clean them or not and to or to not polish them. I have read in some places yes and some places no, even in this forum here.
 

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