I got the runs. . . .

Old Dog

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
IN MY LACQUER! Finally decided to work the finish on my 2nd snare build.

I was curious what you guys do when you have drips/runs in your lacquer finish.

I've watched a couple videos. One by a Luthier--and he uses Timber mate. This is a water soluble wood grain filler. So, I'm guessing after it hardens it simply acts as protection for the surrounding area while you sand down the run. Then you can literally wash off the excess.

The other method I saw that I may try, is the razor blade scratch method. This wasn't specifically done on wood. It was actually done on a recently painted car. They use a razor to scrape down the run/drip. Then the entire area is wet sanded (600, 800, 1500, 3000). And finally polished.

If I had ONLY stopped after 3 coats. I had NO runs at this point. But I really want a much higher shine/gloss. My first build I used a satin wipe on poly. Eh :dontknow: :rolleyes: Not my favorite. I may actually end up wrapping that drum, I digress.

Thanks for suggestions.
 

thin shell

DFO Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
3,637
Reaction score
805
The razor blade method followed by wet sanding works but you have to be very careful and very patient. One slip of the razor blade and it's all over.

In auto body class in high school the group I was in prepped and painted a car and the guy who sprayed it got several runs in the paint. He got some to sand and I got some. I just sanded them down with wet or dry sandpaper using a sanding block. You have to dry it often to make sure you are only sanding the drip. It was actually a small part of a paint stir stick. I started with 600 or 800 and worked my to finer grits and took my time. The other guy started with 220 or something more aggressive and got impatient. The panel I was working on just had to be polished but he sanded through and had to respray his panel.
 

Old Dog

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
The razor blade method followed by wet sanding works but you have to be very careful and very patient. One slip of the razor blade and it's all over.

In auto body class in high school the group I was in prepped and painted a car and the guy who sprayed it got several runs in the paint. He got some to sand and I got some. I just sanded them down with wet or dry sandpaper using a sanding block. You have to dry it often to make sure you are only sanding the drip. It was actually a small part of a paint stir stick. I started with 600 or 800 and worked my to finer grits and took my time. The other guy started with 220 or something more aggressive and got impatient. The panel I was working on just had to be polished but he sanded through and had to respray his panel.

Yes sanding through, is my big fear. I will probably do a minimal amount with the razor, and sand from there. Thanks for the heads up on being careful. :thumbup:
 

Fat Drummer

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Messages
2,599
Reaction score
1,689
Location
Tennessee
I'm hesitant to discuss finishing question any longer as everyone is now an expert! Yet the wrong information will result in a very unhappy drum project. I will ask what did you use for this finish specifically... type of lacquer, brand and method of delivery? These can have an impact on recommendations for the cure.

Sorry to her of the run, but love hearing that you are building yourself a new drum! That is always a win, win!
 

Old Dog

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
I used Minwax aerosol clear lacquer spray--gloss. 3 coats, no runs. 4th coat, a run. It had cured for 2 days. Then I decided to add another 2 to 3 coats yesterday. I'm going to let it sit for at least 3 or 4 days. I can certainly let it sit and cure for longer if needed. But, I'm getting ready to start another "job" and would very much like to finish my snare first.

I'm too much of a newb with wood finishing to be an expert. I appreciate any feedback and help you can lend.

I enjoy building and refurbishing more than playing. The satisfaction. :thumbup:
 

Fat Drummer

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Messages
2,599
Reaction score
1,689
Location
Tennessee
So you have added additional coats over the original run? If so, that makes it a little tougher but not impossible.

Most aerosol DIY lacquers are based on nitro-cellulose and of all the available top coat finish options, that is the easiest to correct. Had you know, you could have wiped the run down at the time it occurred and simply filled in the void at that very moment. I learned finishing with nitro and would even wipe a run out with my finger, fill in the area and one would never know! Nitro does not offer sever use protection but it is very easy to build and make a nice looking finish.

The reason it builds so easily is that it is chemically "hot" meaning that the solvents in the product will reactivate the previous coat and allow the new coat to flow into the previous finish. This is the key to your repair. Once the finish has had time to cure out (this will vary with how thick the coats were sprayed on) you can wet sand the run out of the finish with 400 to 600 finish paper. It will take a little time so be patience. Use a sanding block as your bare hand will move, flex and conform to the surface. Without a block you could wind up sanding uneven or worse, sanding through the finish.

After you have sanded the spot completely out, clean it very well of the sanding dust and simply respray the entire drum again so everything stays even. Again, the secret is in the fact that the lacquer will "melt" back into itself to create a nice , evenly flowed finish again.

The number one problem I see guys make with aerosol can finishes is trying to spray too thick of a coat. It's better to spry many thin, even coats as opposed to just 2 or 3 thick ones. I don't know if this will help, but after years of shooting nitro-cellulose, I know this would work 100% of the time in your situation. In fact, the repairability of the product is what I miss the most! I have not shot nitro in many years having moved on to other platforms, but I am confident you could repair that run with a little time and patience.

Good luck with what ever you choose to do and show us some pics of the finished drum... new additions are always worth sharing!

Ward
 

Old Dog

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
So you have added additional coats over the original run? If so, that makes it a little tougher but not impossible.

Most aerosol DIY lacquers are based on nitro-cellulose and of all the available top coat finish options, that is the easiest to correct. Had you know, you could have wiped the run down at the time it occurred and simply filled in the void at that very moment. I learned finishing with nitro and would even wipe a run out with my finger, fill in the area and one would never know! Nitro does not offer sever use protection but it is very easy to build and make a nice looking finish.

The reason it builds so easily is that it is chemically "hot" meaning that the solvents in the product will reactivate the previous coat and allow the new coat to flow into the previous finish. This is the key to your repair. Once the finish has had time to cure out (this will vary with how thick the coats were sprayed on) you can wet sand the run out of the finish with 400 to 600 finish paper. It will take a little time so be patience. Use a sanding block as your bare hand will move, flex and conform to the surface. Without a block you could wind up sanding uneven or worse, sanding through the finish.

After you have sanded the spot completely out, clean it very well of the sanding dust and simply respray the entire drum again so everything stays even. Again, the secret is in the fact that the lacquer will "melt" back into itself to create a nice , evenly flowed finish again.

The number one problem I see guys make with aerosol can finishes is trying to spray too thick of a coat. It's better to spry many thin, even coats as opposed to just 2 or 3 thick ones. I don't know if this will help, but after years of shooting nitro-cellulose, I know this would work 100% of the time in your situation. In fact, the repairability of the product is what I miss the most! I have not shot nitro in many years having moved on to other platforms, but I am confident you could repair that run with a little time and patience.

Good luck with what ever you choose to do and show us some pics of the finished drum... new additions are always worth sharing!

Ward

Ward! Awesome, man. Thanks. You know, I actually wiped one run early--And thought "aw man, I shouldn't have done that." When in actuality, I should've done it again! You live and learn. Thanks for the recommendations. I'm certainly being patient with this particular build. Should not be a problem to go about it as you suggested. Thanks again.
 

thin shell

DFO Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
3,637
Reaction score
805
Wiping a drip while spraying has saved me several times. Fatdrummer is right about more thin coats. The temperature also makes a big difference when spraying. The colder it is, the slower the solvents evaporate so the finish is more prone to drips when it is colder.

I use one of those snap on trigger handles for aerosol cans and it makes spraying with a can much easier. It gives you more of the feel that you get with a spray gun and makes it easier to spray properly. You want to use straight passes and keep the spray parallel to the surface and overlap the previous pass to give even coverage. Drums are best sprayed on a lazy susan so you can rotate the drum and keep the can or gun in the same place. If you see any factory videos of any drum company you will see the shell being painted this way.
 

Old Dog

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
Wiping a drip while spraying has saved me several times. Fatdrummer is right about more thin coats. The temperature also makes a big difference when spraying. The colder it is, the slower the solvents evaporate so the finish is more prone to drips when it is colder.

I use one of those snap on trigger handles for aerosol cans and it makes spraying with a can much easier. It gives you more of the feel that you get with a spray gun and makes it easier to spray properly. You want to use straight passes and keep the spray parallel to the surface and overlap the previous pass to give even coverage. Drums are best sprayed on a lazy susan so you can rotate the drum and keep the can or gun in the same place. If you see any factory videos of any drum company you will see the shell being painted this way.
Yessir. I also have a trigger sprayer for cans.

It was a little cooler yesterday, but I chose Monday to spray. It was nice and warm that day. I basically followed the directions on the can. The first coat was "heavier". But the next passes were considerably lighter.

I also bought a small circular lazy susan and glued it to a nice sized board. . .I did my research! I'm just not experienced with spraying.
 

thin shell

DFO Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
3,637
Reaction score
805
Sounds like you did a good job researching. Just like drumming, spraying takes practice.
 

Old Dog

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
So I sanded back a lot of the outer lacquer. 400, 600, 1200 1500 I think?? Then I applied 3 more thinner coats of lacquer. NO RUNS! I'm stopping while I'm ahead. I'm getting NO added shine with the wood polish. It literally looks and feels like its COMPLETELY being absorbed. I may try an automotive polish to see if I get any added shine to the lacquer.

Hopefully I'll have it assembled and post pics by week's end.
 

Fat Drummer

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Messages
2,599
Reaction score
1,689
Location
Tennessee
There are a LOT of polishes and process out there... but the easiest one I have found for nitro lacquer is DuPont light rubbing compound and then polish out with Turtle Wax polish. Just a simply polish hack.
 

thin shell

DFO Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
3,637
Reaction score
805
To get as smooth a finish as possible you need to let the finish dry thouroughly and then wet sand to smooth out the finish and get rid of any orange peel. Same progression on the grit but start with a finer grit, probably 800 ,since you are only removing enough to even the surface. Use a sanding block. Once you polish it as Fatdrummer said, you will have a mirror finish.
 

Old Dog

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
To get as smooth a finish as possible you need to let the finish dry thouroughly and then wet sand to smooth out the finish and get rid of any orange peel. Same progression on the grit but start with a finer grit, probably 800 ,since you are only removing enough to even the surface. Use a sanding block. Once you polish it as Fatdrummer said, you will have a mirror finish.
Yep, all of my sanding has been with a sanding block. I've not bought the best, but it has been wet/dry sandpaper. I sprayed it Saturday, so the lacquer has definitely cured. I'm just, not sure I want to sand it. The orange peel effect is very minimal. Feels quite smooth. . . .I think I'm more afraid of over sanding by accident. I've been very good about being "light".

I don't have those exactly suggested, but I do have good quality rubbing compounds and automotive polish/waxes I think I'm going to try.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 

REF

Very well Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
548
Reaction score
415
Location
TX
Satin will really not shine like a high gloss will. Some, even some companies, favor satin finishes because they are more "user friendly" on the end result. Not as time consuming.

Lacquer can develop hairline cracks if it doesn't cure correctly. I had that happen to an entire 12 pc kit. On figured Eucalyptus veneer, at that. Ugh. Just make sure they stay in a dry environment.

Lacquer sets up so fast. Any time I finish drums I place them horizontal, not vertical, and almost all the drums, even BDs, I hold and rotate and then spin them with my hands so the finish congeals evenly and sets up. I'll even use a hair dryer to quicken the process. Of course, your issue are the drips. I generally use a wood block, not a sanding block made of sponge because it forms to the shell and may rub on both sides of the drip. A hard block and good sight line can keep you taking down only the drip, a pass at a time.

I'm sure it will come out looking beautiful.
 

Old Dog

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
Satin will really not shine like a high gloss will. Some, even some companies, favor satin finishes because they are more "user friendly" on the end result. Not as time consuming.

Lacquer can develop hairline cracks if it doesn't cure correctly. I had that happen to an entire 12 pc kit. On figured Eucalyptus veneer, at that. Ugh. Just make sure they stay in a dry environment.

Lacquer sets up so fast. Any time I finish drums I place them horizontal, not vertical, and almost all the drums, even BDs, I hold and rotate and then spin them with my hands so the finish congeals evenly and sets up. I'll even use a hair dryer to quicken the process. Of course, your issue are the drips. I generally use a wood block, not a sanding block made of sponge because it forms to the shell and may rub on both sides of the drip. A hard block and good sight line can keep you taking down only the drip, a pass at a time.

I'm sure it will come out looking beautiful.
I made a large lazy susan, so I could continuously spin the drum and spray. This 2nd time I sprayed, I was lighter than light. Yeah I don't know if I completely sanded the first spraying of lacquer off of the drum entirely. I sanded a considerable amount.

I think it looks good, not spectacular shiny or anything. I'm going to try a rubbing compound and auto polish.


REF!!! You're jammin hard in your new video. Excellent :headbang:
 


Top