I need to learn how to "listen" to Hihats...

Quai34

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
78
Reaction score
35
Hi,
There is still one thing I really have a hard time to assess, it's the Hihat. You may know that I'm the keys player of the band so, to build up the set up you see in my signature, I needed to really go deep in searching for all Infos available, forum like this one or "drum forum", reviews, youtube, catalogue, etc... I think I could have a pretty good idea of what cymbal I should need or even buy or need for a type of song or genre but I feel a bit incompetent if I want to describe a Hihat. So, below are 3 Hihats that I like, I have 2 of them but how would you describe each one. Maybe you play them, have heard them and why did you choose them etc...Currently the Sand hat is the main hat, the click hat is the X-Hat but I may switch but want your opinion first...

1) Meinl Byzance Foundry Reserve Hats (That I don't have but like a lot)


2) Sabian HHX Click hats (That I have and like a lot too, they are in the X-Hat, but I'm wondering if they should be on the normal hat position...)


3) Meinl Byzance Vintage Sand hats, Benny Grebb model (Main Hihat position)

https://youtu.be/sv40SClblPc

And finally, if you could tell me which kind of music you would use them. Sorry to give you some work to do but I need to close the gap between how I understand cymbals and how I understand Hihat... My idea is that, if you don't play them, it starts to be very difficult to tell as one of the main stenghts or weaknesses or attraction versus rejection of a Hihat is how you feel them, how they play under your stick...etc...but I would like to have your thoughts on the 3 hats...
 

Rick

Very well Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
578
Reaction score
479
Location
Atlanta
I like the Sand hats the best out of all those for sure! Very nice sounding hats and I think they would be versatile for many types of music.

Here's another alternative that I think is really good. These are what I play. I really love them, and every time I play around on other hi hats in a music store or on another drummer's kit, I just never find anything that I think is better. Been playing these for about 5 years now...

 

Quai34

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
78
Reaction score
35
Ok, thanks, I put the sand hats on the main hat thinking like you they might be the most versatile, the Click hat are in the X-Stand...When I play them closed, they sound like the original version of "Shaft", the intro... I don't have the Meinl Foundry reserve yet, they seem to be perfect for jazz for me, maybe I will put them in a remote hat on the right side of the kit....I might like too much Hihats in fact...
 

Old Drummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
667
Reaction score
546
I like opinion sound challenges like this.

For me, the Sand hats are a no go. They're just too weak. Maybe at low volumes or whatever is done in a studio they'd be fine, and I don't think their sound is bad, but I just don't think they carry enough.

The HHX hats carry the best (nice pronounced chick), and I really like that. But played alone they seem too meaty for me. Probably they'd be good for loud rock or something along those lines, but they're a bit too much for me.

This leaves the Meinl hats, and I really like their tone, but the chick seems to disappear at loud volumes and I don't like that.

So I'm afraid that none of the hats would be my top choice. Instead, I would look for something in between the HHX and Meinl hats. If forced to choose from these three, I'd probably go with the Meinl hats. I prefer their sound all around, just wish they had a stronger chick.
 

Quai34

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
78
Reaction score
35
Ok, which one do you think is the highest pitch? And about the overtones? In which order would you place them from overtone to higher tone and some question for the overtones?
 

multijd

DFO Veteran
Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
1,994
Reaction score
1,295
Location
Buffalo, NY
I have a few different sets of hihat from old k- Sabian AA. I use them all. Sometimes because I think the sound might be right, other times just for a change. Experiment! You might find an interesting new sound. There are no rules only your ears.
 

Quai34

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
78
Reaction score
35
I like opinion sound challenges like this.

For me, the Sand hats are a no go. They're just too weak. Maybe at low volumes or whatever is done in a studio they'd be fine, and I don't think their sound is bad, but I just don't think they carry enough.

The HHX hats carry the best (nice pronounced chick), and I really like that. But played alone they seem too meaty for me. Probably they'd be good for loud rock or something along those lines, but they're a bit too much for me.

This leaves the Meinl hats, and I really like their tone, but the chick seems to disappear at loud volumes and I don't like that.

So I'm afraid that none of the hats would be my top choice. Instead, I would look for something in between the HHX and Meinl hats. If forced to choose from these three, I'd probably go with the Meinl hats. I prefer their sound all around, just wish they had a stronger chick.
You know what, that is what I was worries about when I decided to buy them but in the demo from Benny Grebb, it was not the case so, I said ok, we will see. When I liked it up, I had to put a -20db pad ortherwise the signal was too hot...ok, maybe it's the ATM 4041 which has a very high sensitivity and high output... But yes, naturally, I'm showing a bit of volume for loud environment but we play Funk/Fusion and I'd doesn't seem to be the case with is...
For the HHX, they are yes super meaty so, I put them on the X-Hat, we have more Indie Pop rock inhibit 3 Rd set, maybe they should be good for that or on an alternate remote hihat on the right hand side...
The click hats are still bonding very week with the programs of the drumbox, in a song like "Lean On"/DJ Laser, they do the tricky fast rollings of the original drumbox in the song very nicely
Anyway, thanks a lot for your time, great opinion...
 

Quai34

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
78
Reaction score
35
here's how to learn to listen.. you listen..
.............
..
then learn to play,. : )
Well. I know, I do that on keys, I'm the keys player but all the drums équipement is mine so, we changed so many times drummers for the last 2 years that I decided to have a permanent drums kit in my basement where we practice... So, no more new cymbals or Hihat or whatever to re install, redo the sound check for recording etc...But in Hihat, I even have a hard time to characterize them, dry? Wet? A lot of overtone? Not so much, format kind of music etc? They all sound good to me but thanks for replying, I will listen to the file you proposed...
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDA

JDA

DFO Star
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
20,500
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
I even have a hard time to characterize them, dry? Wet? A lot of overtone?
Heavy, Medium and Light is a start...
then blend to your style/situation/ compatible with rest of your drums / cymbals..
there's Dark there's Bright...there's too much or too little of any of these quantities.
So we all like/look/ for the Goldilocks pair; you will find them too. For the drummer you are at that moment
 

halldorl

DFO Veteran
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
2,871
Reaction score
2,848
Location
Iceland
I have both the Sand hats and the 14” Foundry Reserve. Weak? No. The Sand hats bottom is quite heavy and I have never found them weak and I don’t do much jazz or low volume gigs. The Foundry Reserve are sweeter but I still use them for pop/rock gigs. Note that in general I like to really lay into my hats so I usually go for a sound that is not too piercing or high volume so that they blend well with the kit and music. I’d say both models are ideal for funk/fusion. Metal? No but both models are pretty verdatile IMO.
 

Quai34

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
78
Reaction score
35
So, I pull the trigger in the Hihat Meinl foundry reserve, a used one at a good price but almost new conditions and great financing for BF. I'm will post pictures and let you know how it sounds and compares to the 2 others, well, the 3 others as I still have my Zildjian 70's Avedis New Beat..thanks for all the infos, do not hesitate to post if you feel it could help me again...
 


Top