Interesting changes to PayPal's Account User Agreement coming July 31st

Tama CW

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I found some of these changes interesting. In particular, the one that says there will be no PP protection for those purchasing items intended for resale. That tells me that merchants, dealers, resalers, etc. might not want to consider using PayPal any longer when purchasing.....at least those who have a resale number on file with their state and/or PayPal. You're paying 3% for just a transaction buying fee now.

As far as item 2 with "unauthorized transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal,".........would that include drum forums? Craig's List? Facebook? And just what is an "unauthorized" transaction?" And an "environment not hosted by PP?" I'm sure buying illegal items would be unauthorized. Or probably buying stolen property via PP. My head is spinning already.


Amendments to the PayPal Account User Agreement


  • We are expanding our Seller Protection Program to include certain intangible goods and providing the terms and conditions with respect to the coverage of such intangible goods.
  • We are clarifying that our Seller Protection Program does not cover Unauthorized Transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal.
  • For “Significantly Not as Described” claims under our Seller Protection Program, we are clarifying that the item may not be returned to sellers or sellers may be required to accept the returned item and pay for the return shipping costs.
  • We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full?utm_source=epsilon&utm_campaign=A_EP_NA_202006_54212_B2C_B2B_Q3_2020_UA_Update_US_Merchant_LR_US_en_US&utm_medium=email
 
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712drummer

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As far as item 2 with "unauthorized transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal,".........would that include drum forums? Craig's List? Facebook?
I saw that too and was wondering what it really means. Makes me wonder if I should close my paypal account.
 
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studrum

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How about checks (no fee with mine) and money orders (super low cost) only, and if you buy online it's only right from a store. Send your check or money order to the store. Enough of these blood suckers. Guys like us take our stuff to a local, actual store that does the online sales.
 

Redbeard77

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20 years ago when I would buy or sell stuff online the preferred method of payment was USPS money order. I wonder if that will regain popularity. If you're not going to have much recourse through these online payments, you might as well skip the fees.
 

Skeet6

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20 years ago when I would buy or sell stuff online the preferred method of payment was USPS money order. I wonder if that will regain popularity. If you're not going to have much recourse through these online payments, you might as well skip the fees.
Use of Postal MO has never really left the firearms community, as paypal has some pretty anti-gun policies. (Unless of course, you buy said parts on eBay, such hypocrites!)
Most sellers of parts and components won't even accept paypal for that very reason. It DOES make things more convenient for small items, though. Just bought a drum kit on the other side of the country, made a deposit via paypal, and sent a cashier check for the balance. Screw paypal.
Mike B
 

Rich K.

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I found some of these changes interesting. In particular, the one that says there will be no PP protection for those purchasing items intended for resale. That tells me that merchants, dealers, resalers, etc. might not want to consider using PayPal any longer when purchasing.....at least those who have a resale number on file with their state and/or PayPal. You're paying 3% for just a transaction buying fee now.

As far as item 2 with "unauthorized transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal,".........would that include drum forums? Craig's List? Facebook? And just what is an "unauthorized" transaction?" And an "environment not hosted by PP?" I'm sure buying illegal items would be unauthorized. Or probably buying stolen property via PP. My head is spinning already.


Amendments to the PayPal Account User Agreement


  • We are expanding our Seller Protection Program to include certain intangible goods and providing the terms and conditions with respect to the coverage of such intangible goods.
  • We are clarifying that our Seller Protection Program does not cover Unauthorized Transactions initiated in an environment not hosted by PayPal.
  • For “Significantly Not as Described” claims under our Seller Protection Program, we are clarifying that the item may not be returned to sellers or sellers may be required to accept the returned item and pay for the return shipping costs.
  • We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full?utm_source=epsilon&utm_campaign=A_EP_NA_202006_54212_B2C_B2B_Q3_2020_UA_Update_US_Merchant_LR_US_en_US&utm_medium=email
At first glance...

Purchasers aren't charged a fee. My guess is that the resale thing is so wholesalers or dealers don't abuse the protection... buying stuff, they buy stuff, can't resell it and try to send it back to the original seller for a refund. Don't think (guessing) this would apply to one of us getting a good deal on something like a drum or cymbal with the intent of flipping it.

As far as the "unauthorizied" thing... guessing (again) this might apply to folks falling for fake paypal fishing type sites that don't really have paypal accounts.
 

Rich K.

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20 years ago when I would buy or sell stuff online the preferred method of payment was USPS money order. I wonder if that will regain popularity. If you're not going to have much recourse through these online payments, you might as well skip the fees.
There was a lot more trust among hobbyists back then...soon afterwards the scams ran amuck. Nowadays I wouldn't send a MO even if I knew the seller, unless I got the item first.
 

el_37

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Can we consider just using Venmo for transactions here?
There is no buyer/seller protection with Venmo.

A few years back we had quite a few vintage drum scams perpetrated by a guy in NJ using the classifieds. He always asked for payment via PayPal Friends and Family which also has no buyer protection. Quite a few people lost money- some in the 4 figures. Most people on here are honest, but there have been enough bad apples over the years that there is a sticky to not use payment methods with no recourse.

On top of that Venmo is owned by PayPal anyway.......
 
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Mongrel

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I just dropped paypal. Thanks. I'll just either use 1) vendors who deal with credit cards or 2) face to face for used stuff. Shipping prices have already pretty much killed the whole e-verb thing anyway.
Agree-Re: shipping prices....

For instance-Sell a $60 value used pedal for $35 with “free shipping”?

Add in your time to pack it and drive it to the post office or UPS store?

Who can ‘compete’ with that? Be better off donating it locally or tossing it in the trash.

lol
 

Nacci

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I just dropped paypal. Thanks. I'll just either use 1) vendors who deal with credit cards or 2) face to face for used stuff. Shipping prices have already pretty much killed the whole e-verb thing anyway.
I agree, the fun is over.
 

Piggpenn

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"Now hold on there Baba Looey!" What kind of drummer are you if you can't buy gear try it once, store it for 5 years and sell it at a loss? It's un American!! ;-)
That's the problem. I'm still doing that. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Sold some microphone sets yesterday. I think I sold all 4 for what I paid for 1 many years ago. They served me well and now someone else gets to put them to task.

BTW, sold on Sunday, shipped on Monday, already paid, via Reverb. :)
 

musiqman

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PP sucks badly anyway. Had too much negative experiences with them.
The downside is.

International without CC it is mostly our only option here Though, so I keep using it.
 

ppfd

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Shipping is crazy anymore, I get it fuel, salaries and associated costs. Time eats the PP fee and then shipping its not worth it.

And now you try and sell a decent or like new item and buyers want to offer pennies on the dollar.
I had some outdoor gear for sale on a FB group asked $140.00 shipped and I'd eat the PP fee. Same gear new is 175.00 and buyer pays shipping so 180-190. Guy offers me 125 with me paying shipping and fees. No I'll just toss it back in the closet.

And that "not as described" section- seller may or may not get the item back or the buyer pays return shipping. Isn't that how it always it was?
 

ARGuy

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Shipping is crazy anymore, I get it fuel, salaries and associated costs.
I think it's just as much supply and demand as anything. I overheard a UPS driver talking about how they are busier than they've ever been and they're not hiring more drivers. All the shippers would be crazy not raising their rates. If people either can't or won't leave their house to buy things, then it makes good business sense to make more money shipping.
 

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