Interesting Zildjian K Pre-aged dry light ride

blueshadow

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This looks to be one of the later ones made JE serial (2005) 2080 grams seems about the weight most of these are in but check the hammering, looks different, almost spiral, unless it's a picture effect or something else.

Also has the K on bottom which I believe started about this time.
 
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K.O.

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I love mine, if I could only keep one of my myriad Zildjian ride cymbals it would be my 20" pre aged dry light ride (however if I could only keep one ride, period, it would be my 20" Bettis).


If this one were cheaper I'd be tempted.
 

blueshadow

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Yeah I had a really good one that I sold about 10 years ago. I have a crash ride that I love but it's a little different. From what I remember the PADL had a little more stick definition. I have an 18" that I love. I've had 2 22" ones that I just couldn't get into.
 

K.O.

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As with any cast cymbals no two are exactly alike. I think I lucked out with mine as I've tried others of the same model that didn't grab me. Generally they all sound nice but some are better than others. Always a crapshoot to buy a cast cymbal you can't hear in person first.
 

Seb77

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I could imagine they changed the hammering pattern over time. the first series that employed this spiral pattern (same number of hammer marks in concentric rows) was the Z series. I 'm not sure if the K series employed the same hammering bakc then as they did later. The K Custom Dark series in later instances looks like it had more concentric hammering than in early instances.
Ulimately, it's about the sound...
 

zenstat

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So much info I haven't written up properly yet...

Yes the hammering machine in use changed. I'm not sure if they changed the hammering machine from the early to late PADLR cymbals because I haven't finished that research. The current generation of hammering machine is able to produce whatever pattern you want. Somebody posted this video (in the General section) recently. If you have a look you will see the current generation of hammering machine doing loop the loops. Check time code 3:37 (ish) for the impact hammer. As the hammering progresses you can see spiral (well, curved arc) which is later made more irregular by further hammer blows.


I believe that what you are describing in the earlier K Custom series (some models) may not be concentric ring hammering at all but rotary hammering. This is the first time I've seen the rotary hammer at work time code 2:54 (ish). Pinksterboer (p120) mentions them as new in the mid 80s but no pictures. You are seeing rotary hammering which is done prior to backbending and pressing into shape. This rotary hammering machine came into use on the K series Custom Ride and it leaves a characteristic look to the cymbal on both the top and the bottom. It is also used on the A Customs and you can see the same telltale pattern on those.

Here is the K series Custom Ride which shifted into the K Custom series in 1995 (when the K Custom Series was released).



File:Zil-K-22-Custom-Ride-top.jpg


File:Zil-K-22-Custom-Ride-bot.jpg

I don't know if all K Custom rides (or cymbals) are rotary hammered. I know that some still have the rotary hammering pattern and also have hammering from the impact hammering machine.


As with any cast cymbals no two are exactly alike.
I think it is time to move on to a new version of this well worn aphorism. I'd now say "As with any cymbal where they don't spend hours and hours doing fine tuning, no two cymbals are very very similar". We know this because skilled cymbal smiths are able to clone cymbals to a high degree of accuracy. Those cymbal smiths can do this whether the cymbal is "cast" or not. They can do this independent of the alloy involved. They can do this in a factory setting or as independents. Production cymbals may vary more depending on how narrow the acceptance bands are around the target cymbal. That's not a "cast" vs "non cast" thing, especially since all cymbals are cast but the techniques vary (Pinksterboer 112). It is a matter of how much time you put in to careful fine tuning, and that is a question of balancing production costs and retail price.
 
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zenstat

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JE serial I believe 1994
JE is 2005 so a lot later. My shiny new laser decode entry on the wiki -- for those of you who don't think I'm making progress :icon_e_wink:


According to the models info from Zildjian they came out in 1992 and the 18" and 22" were discontinued in 2001. The document doesn't give the year the PADLR 20" was discontinued. This one lets me add that they lasted until at least 2005. I had a 20" from 2001 in my entry below so it's good to see a later one. Every little bit helps fill out the picture.

 
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K.O.

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Mine has an IF prefix on the serial. Then 96XX-001

Any significance to the 001?

Edit: never mind I read your link above :)
 

zenstat

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Mine has an IF prefix on the serial. Then 96XX-001

Any significance to the 001?

Edit: never mind I read your link above :)
Did it have the K or the Zildjian ink on the bottom? I'm still gathering data on when the Zildjian ink changed back to just a K (but a K with a little ®).
 

kb

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Did it have the K or the Zildjian ink on the bottom? I'm still gathering data on when the Zildjian ink changed back to just a K (but a K with a little ®).
I thought it was 2000, when the whole line was re-designed.

I have three Z's with the Large K underneath:

18" Med Thin Dark Crash - JB 20583 - 115

20" Ride - JD 36182 - 031

20" Ride - Illegible - I just can't read it without a better magnifing glass. Bought new, around 2001. Six factory rivets.

For comparison, another 18" Med Thin Dark Crash, but with Zildjian logo underneath:

JF 51776 - 034

Sorry no weights.
 

JimmyFenno

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I've never weighed mine - the one I bought down by the Santa Ana River and Warner in 1986. Was that a Sam Dashed shop there? Man, my ride has lasted a lot longer then the store did.
 

JimmyFenno

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Dangit....just looked at it.

It is a K (top). A Custom with no lathing on the bottom at all....smooth as can be bottom. Most definitely a "K" stamping on top. This ride really sounds great. From edge to bell, under and rim. Swing to 4 quarters on the heavy rock...awesome. It looks nothing like the pics above. The line edition I use is most def not represented on mine.
 

Seb77

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Did it have the K or the Zildjian ink on the bottom? I'm still gathering data on when the Zildjian ink changed back to just a K (but a K with a little ®).
Do you think the PADLR was included in this makeover? The standard Ks changed a lot in terms of lathing, so the new logo made sense. The PADLR lathing didn't change.

Do we know what makes the PADLR "pre-aged"? I remember a post by Paul Franics stating it was just hammering, butI think I read something else in an old interview (don't remember with whom).
 

zenstat

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Do you think the PADLR was included in this makeover? The standard Ks changed a lot in terms of lathing, so the new logo made sense. The PADLR lathing didn't change.

Do we know what makes the PADLR "pre-aged"? I remember a post by Paul Franics stating it was just hammering, butI think I read something else in an old interview (don't remember with whom).
I'm not sure whether the ink on the PADLR changed in step with the other Ks or not. Hopefully we will have some more examples appear and we have a chance to find out.

Pinksterboer (p147) just says of the PADLR

an extremely light cymbal that is processed to sound a lot older than it is
which isn't all that clear in terms of what the process is. I'd go for the hammering style plus the light weight. Remember that at this time the K Ride was heavier than the old Ks (K Zildjian Istanbul) of 10 years before.
 

Seb77

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I'd go for the hammering style plus the light weight. Remember that at this time the K Ride was heavier than the old Ks (K Zildjian Istanbul) of 10 years before.
There was a K Light ride before the PADLR though (too bad I lost the catalog I got around 1990). I think they were even listed side by side for a while. I think Erskine played one of those Light rides.
 

zenstat

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Yes the K Light Ride was produced 1985-1995 and was just in the 20" diameter. I've only got two weights for that model which are 2015g and 1905g. A photo for one (I've got more):


20-1905-top.jpg


20-1905-bot.jpg


The differences between PADLR and Light Ride could be in the bells, profile, taper, hammering, and lathing. There could also be some surface treatment but I haven't seen anything in the photos I've reviewed. There are also some Jazz Rides and Rides which seem to weigh less than the Light Ride and the PADLR which doesn't help. I've got a reputed 1860g Ride in my records which looks crazy low, and an 1882 Jazz Ride which is very low compared to others. It all needs a good review of the evidence. :dontknow:
 
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K.O.

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No big "K" on the underside of my 1996 20" PADLR just a solid Zildjian script. 2294grams.
 


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