Is the ride cymbal dying in modern rock music?

Demonslayer

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Oh, absolutely! I wasn't responding to you -- your post made sense. I was responding to the person calling us out for not mentioning "swing". Because modern rock music is definitely known for how much it swings ;)
I appreciate @bpaluzzi 's input quite a bit.

I've been trying to avoid this conversation, but it keeps coming at me one way or the other, so I'm just going to come out and say it:

No one wants to take away your ride.

I get it that rides are somewhat of a sacred cow around here, but some responses to this post have been pretty visceral, defensive, and just not cool.

In my case, it's been two gigs in a row where the artist is asking for things to be played a certain way. I don't think my feelings about any particular piece of equipment are worth losing the artist's confidence in my abilities to interpret their music they way they see fit. It's not my music, so waxing philosophical about my sound sounds petty.

There. Have at it again.
 
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WesChilton

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To give a bit of a long perspective... I've been playing and recording in and out of the music biz since the late 1970s. Bottom line... styles change, fads come and go and everything seems to come around again. Look at kits from the 50s and 60s then look at the 70s and 80s. HUGE change. Three piece kits in small sizes with two maybe three cymbals gave way to massive power toms, double bass drums and 5, 6, 7 or 20 cymbals. In the 90s there was fusion, grunge and drummers started using multiple snares, double bass drum pedals and electronics galore...

And then in the 2000s everything started to go the other direction, getting smaller, simplifying... and now, 20 years later, everyone is falling all over themselves, paying thousands of quatloos to get back the old, dead sounding plastic wrapped kits we were literally throwing away in the late 70s.

Everything changes, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I have my own opinions about the way music has evolved, but I'm not super worked up about it because I know whatever is going on now wont last. Change is inevitable, no matter how much the industry doesn't want it to.

So maybe the sort of "rock" music being made today doesn't have a lot of ride in it... things will change in another 5-10 years and rides could be all over the place again.

I agree with the post above... I have done a several of sessions in the last couple of years where I was asked not to play a ride, or to play a very washy, crash-ride or hihat part in the chorus. But I have also done two rock recordings last year where I did play a ride in a more traditional rock way (whatever that means). So, what I'm seeing is that the ride is still being used when producers and songwriters think its the right instrument to play. Sometimes a producer or artist will have very specific ideas about the drum part and other times they wont, which means I can try a ride if I want to, and then they can decide if they like it. it helps having a few different sounding rides (or any other cymbals) to find a best fit for the song.
 

Corbin L Douthitt

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Only Dads use Rides
Only Dads know what they are for.
IMHO - rides provide undertones FOR the music. If the ‘music’ doesn’t need it, don’t play it. For a while, the big time R&R guys chose cymbals for the bell tone. It’s what they ‘rode’. Maybe crash on the edge of the cymbal. I hear too much bashing and banging and breaking sticks, cracking cymbals and complaints that the snare won’t stay tuned. Couldn’t be from bashing and slamming rim shots? The good drumming I see- new bands on some late night shows- bass, snare, hats. Steady beat. Steady groove. Seldom any dynamics. But the engineer can use the volume slide to control that. .
 
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Just for fun, I did a quick study of some of the records I’ve dug in the last decade and created a short playlist with current bands/artists with songs still using rides. I tried to pick ones typically younger than me (47), have records in the last few years and don’t necessarily have a history that spans multiple decades. Some are very well known, some are well respected indie bands and some are just young bands but most are regulars on satellite radio. Several have come out more recently too. See what you think:

 

Demonslayer

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Just for fun, I did a quick study of some of the records I’ve dug in the last decade and created a short playlist with current bands/artists with songs still using rides. I tried to pick ones typically younger than me (47), have records in the last few years and don’t necessarily have a history that spans multiple decades. Some are very well known, some are well respected indie bands and some are just young bands but most are regulars on satellite radio. Several have come out more recently too. See what you think:

This is outstanding
 

alan818

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I remember growing up and thinking that Alex Van Halen's choice of riding on a crash was odd. Fast-forward 30 years and it's become pretty much the SOP for everything hard rock.

It's been almost 8 years since I've used a bona-fide ride in a rock setting. Band leaders prefer that I bash away on the crash, otherwise it "loses energy".

Thoughts?
[/QUOTE

Back in the 60’s & 70’s, there was still a fair amount of ride cymbal being used in pop and rock.


Sometime in the early to mid 70’s, ride cyms got thicker & heavier and the bells larger.

In the 80’s, ride cymbals in modern rock & pop practically disappears. Hair bands being the exception but even then, bell riding was performance practice.

One of the cymbal types that is underutilized are crash/rides.

If you want to hear a master on a crash/ride, listen to Jim Keltner. I would recommend listening to The Goners.
I remember growing up and thinking that Alex Van Halen's choice of riding on a crash was odd. Fast-forward 30 years and it's become pretty much the SOP for everything hard rock.

It's been almost 8 years since I've used a bona-fide ride in a rock setting. Band leaders prefer that I bash away on the crash, otherwise it "loses energy".

Thoughts?
I remember growing up and thinking that Alex Van Halen's choice of riding on a crash was odd. Fast-forward 30 years and it's become pretty much the SOP for everything hard rock.

It's been almost 8 years since I've used a bona-fide ride in a rock setting. Band leaders prefer that I bash away on the crash, otherwise it "loses energy".

Thoughts?
[/QUOTE

Back in the 60’s & 70’s, there was still a fair amount of ride cymbal being used in pop and rock.


Sometime in the early to mid 70’s, ride cyms got thicker & heavier and the bells larger.

In the 80’s, ride cymbals in modern rock & pop practically disappears. Hair bands being the exception but even then, bell riding was performance practice.

One of the cymbal types that is underutilized are crash/rides.

If you want to hear a master on a crash/ride, listen to Jim Keltner. I would recommend listening to The Goners EP,
I remember growing up and thinking that Alex Van Halen's choice of riding on a crash was odd. Fast-forward 30 years and it's become pretty much the SOP for everything hard rock.

It's been almost 8 years since I've used a bona-fide ride in a rock setting. Band leaders prefer that I bash away on the crash, otherwise it "loses energy".

Thoughts?
I remember growing up and thinking that Alex Van Halen's choice of riding on a crash was odd. Fast-forward 30 years and it's become pretty much the SOP for everything hard rock.



It's been almost 8 years since I've used a bona-fide ride in a rock setting. Band leaders prefer that I bash away on the crash, otherwise it "loses energy".



Thoughts?

[/QUOTE



Back in the 60’s & 70’s, there was still a fair amount of ride cymbal being used in pop and rock.





Sometime in the early to mid 70’s, ride cyms got thicker & heavier and the bells larger.



In the 80’s, ride cymbals in modern rock & pop practically disappears. Hair bands being the exception but even then, bell riding was performance practice.



One of the cymbal types that is underutilized are crash/rides.



If you want to hear a master on a crash/ride, listen to Jim Keltner. I would recommend listening to The Goners, “ Back to You”.
 

jazzmetal

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Oh, absolutely! I wasn't responding to you -- your post made sense. I was responding to the person calling us out for not mentioning "swing". Because modern rock music is definitely known for how much it swings ;)
Hey man sorry - here's some swing!




I appreciate your flailing attempts at sarcasm and didn't realize that Speed Neanderthal Trash Shite Metal (or whatever the current terminology for this particular schism is) would be considered the whole scope of 'Modern Rock' but now understand with that self imposed constricted view, the mere 'word' 'Swing' (not the genre) would of course, be misunderstood and thence derided.

So I do apologize for merely mentioning a 'feel' probable for a 'ride' cymbal as it is evident in the vid that no feel is required here beyond a banging mono-linear primitive frenzy.

That being said, the drummer featured certainly has admirable 'Happy Feet' skills and I'm sure all the players voluminous intake of alcohol / drugs / meth / stimulants / etc, is suitably impressive.

I can also see no ride cymbals were harmed (or possibly considered) during the making of that video - thankfully.


Thankyou ever so much for playing !
(and I mean that most sincerely)
 

Demonslayer

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I appreciate your flailing attempts at sarcasm and didn't realize that Speed Neanderthal Trash Shite Metal (or whatever the current terminology for this particular schism is) would be considered the whole scope of 'Modern Rock' but now understand with that self-imposed constricted view, the mere 'word' 'Swing' (not the genre) would of course, be misunderstood and thence derided.

So I do apologize for merely mentioning a 'feel' probable for a 'ride' cymbal as it is evident in the vid that no feel is required here beyond a banging mono-linear primitive frenzy.

That being said, the drummer featured certainly has admirable 'Happy Feet' skills and I'm sure all the players voluminous intake of alcohol / drugs / meth / stimulants / etc, is suitably impressive.

I can also see no ride cymbals were harmed (or possibly considered) during the making of that video - thankfully.


Thankyou ever so much for playing !
(and I mean that most sincerely)
Do yourself a favor and read all the crap the posting of a single video pulled out of you. Cuz, I mean, it's A LOT!

I'm trying to have an honest, constructive exchange with the community. YOU butt in with derision and sarcasm FIRST and then try to lay into me for a silly shot across the bow.

I mean it. Read yourself. It's lame as hell.
 

bpaluzzi

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I appreciate your flailing attempts at sarcasm and didn't realize that Speed Neanderthal Trash Shite Metal (or whatever the current terminology for this particular schism is) would be considered the whole scope of 'Modern Rock' but now understand with that self imposed constricted view, the mere 'word' 'Swing' (not the genre) would of course, be misunderstood and thence derided.

So I do apologize for merely mentioning a 'feel' probable for a 'ride' cymbal as it is evident in the vid that no feel is required here beyond a banging mono-linear primitive frenzy.

That being said, the drummer featured certainly has admirable 'Happy Feet' skills and I'm sure all the players voluminous intake of alcohol / drugs / meth / stimulants / etc, is suitably impressive.

I can also see no ride cymbals were harmed (or possibly considered) during the making of that video - thankfully.


Thankyou ever so much for playing !
(and I mean that most sincerely)
Next time, just take the L dude.
 

Michael M.

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I notice lots of super produced dancey drums on most new rock that I hear. It’s a super disappointing direction it’s taken but of course that’s what every generation says about the new stuff coming out. Considering I’m entering my mid 30s I’m probably just transitioning to old man.

Anyways, I’d consider Tool modern rock still and Danny Carey pings the hell out of his ride.
Nah, you're just very early middle age. Don't rush it man, it goes quick enough.
 

Michael M.

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I have absolutely noticed a large lack of Ride in modern music. It’s all Hats and Crash.
I think a big contributor to this is the fact that so much music is programed now.
much of what I do as a session drummer is replicate, or at least use what someone programed as a base for what I have to either record or perform live. Sadly it often leaves my Ride cymbals Collecting dust.
I do try to go out of my way and sneak it in, and thankfully have subconsciously developed a “signature thing” in my playing where I’ll often smack a Ride Bell on an up beat during a fill, and people seem to really dig that.
To the point where I’m beginning to get requests from producers and artists to include my “thing” in their songs.

A fair amount of my work has always been with Industrial bands, and a lot of the time I don’t even bring a Ride on tour for them :(
Yeah, keep doing your " thing ". Maybe you will be the one who brings back Rides.
 

Michael M.

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I was using the ride in a cover band more recently... pop and pop country. It was mostly hi-hat playing, but I definitely needed to have a ride.

In metal, or at least what I listen to, it really only seems to be used in blast beats anymore, unless the ride is being crashed, and that's usually because it's hard to find a 22-26" crash.

In general, I have noticed that crashes are being used more, as well as chinas, effects cymbals and stacks. Open hi-hats are also used a lot. It's been a while since I've heard a ride being used "normally." Kind of a bummer because I really like my 20" Ping Ride.
I think Bozio has ALL the China's.
 

Michael M.

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Keep playing that ride... It seems to me that if you;re playing is in time, in the pocket and all of that than the folks you play with much less the audiences that you play for wont really care that you're not using the most trendy type cymbals on your kit.

I'm OK with music moving on and in fact, I've dug a lot of up to the minute styles played by folks who were mostly much younger than I. That being said though the trend for all of these choked, flat, trashy cymbal sounds isn't really my thing... at all. I can appreciate the chops and even the creativity of folks who use this kind of stuff but I mostly don't dig the sounds...
Me too. All the overly hammered acousticly dead cymbals just sound like metal trash can lids to me.
 

Michael M.

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I can say things on a ride that don't translate well on the hihats , mind you it was long road tll I had anything meaningful to say on either . I go into the studio with the aim of getting out of there as soon as possible . Ride cymbals' pitch specificity can sometimes complicate recording sessions and the way product is manufactured today in rock/pop, generic simplicity is most predictably achieved with fewer cymbals, including the ride . In my experience , unless the drummer is an integral part of the picture , producers and engineers prefer dealing with sounds that can be conveniently digitized , and the rides I've heard in that world are pretty cheesy and robotic . Not always, but usually drummer's ears , whether we like it or not , aren't considered as important to others as they are to us .

Live performance is something else altogether .
I agree with your "cheesy and robotic" description. My Roland TD50 is a good example. Two ride samples, and both are crappy. They need a 24" A Zildjian, and 22" ping ride. I guess I'm going to have to learn how to make samples.
 

Michael M.

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I appreciate your flailing attempts at sarcasm and didn't realize that Speed Neanderthal Trash Shite Metal (or whatever the current terminology for this particular schism is) would be considered the whole scope of 'Modern Rock' but now understand with that self imposed constricted view, the mere 'word' 'Swing' (not the genre) would of course, be misunderstood and thence derided.

So I do apologize for merely mentioning a 'feel' probable for a 'ride' cymbal as it is evident in the vid that no feel is required here beyond a banging mono-linear primitive frenzy.

That being said, the drummer featured certainly has admirable 'Happy Feet' skills and I'm sure all the players voluminous intake of alcohol / drugs / meth / stimulants / etc, is suitably impressive.

I can also see no ride cymbals were harmed (or possibly considered) during the making of that video - thankfully.


Thankyou ever so much for playing !
(and I mean that most sincerely)
To me, that can only technically be called music.
 

Iristone

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Two words: KEITH MOON.
When he was doing that in the studio (say Baba O'Riley), you can hear his dynamics which he (and his successors) didn't quite manage to bring on stage. I'd say it's a bit similar to Phil Collins' compressed gated reverb that brings out the dynamics (on say Dodo and Another Record), but got overused and completely squashed later on...
 

TonyVazquez

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I have 13 cymbals in my collection...
And of the 13 I am actually playing 7
of them on my drum kit.
I play ALL of my cymbals whether I
ride them, crash them, bash them,
smash them, clash them, ting them,
ping them, and dingaling them...
...tastefully, and methodically, of course.

I can still hear the ride cymbal today
in modern rock music, it depends on
many factors from who is drumming
to who is producing the album.
I can definitely hear the ride cymbal
in deathmetal music.

(My mini Ha-Ha drum kit has been
going through some upgrades with
better cymbals and stands, drum heads,
and a Danmar metal double-kick pad;
and I recently started acquiring
some drum mics, starting with a
CAD D88 kick drum mic.
Pics coming soon...

The CAD D88 sounds addictive especially when it's picking up the
attacks of my black DW plastic beaters
against the Danmar pad on a
Remo white coated Emperor batter head!
I ran it through my band's PA in
our rehearsal space and cranked
the bass EQ... OMG that bassy crispy
Pantera click sound is to Die for!
Next time I'll run my ART Levelar Compressor in the effects send
for a punchier sound. )
 


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