Is this Camco Oaklawn snare a re-wrap / re-badge?

bellbrass

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Seller says "all original", but that badge looks like one of the new repros to me...also, is that an original wrap? If's it's champagne sparkle, it's very dark / oxidized. Any input from the resident Camco experts would help me make a decision as to whether or not to buy.
Camco Oaklawn on Reverb
 

Prufrock

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The wrap is a more unusual type that shows up on some early Camco drums, but it is original and not faded. The drum looks good as far as the photos, even having the chubby washers and original Camco 12 strand snare wires (which would have come on this drum). The "economy" strainer is the earlier of two versions, and is not damaged or replaced. The badge looks like it is an original. The newer reissue badges are nice, but one update is that they have adhesive on the back so that they don't rotate at all. If a badge looks too perfect, seeing if it will move a little may be one indicator whether it is new or a reissue. The only thing that is a bit unusual on this drum is the grommet. It looks old, but I would have expected to see a chrome plated one on an earlier Oaklawn. There isn't a picture of the inside showing the grommet, and whether it has been messed with at all. It might be worth asking for a photo showing that. With these drums it is always possible that an interior has been repainted, and this can be hard to tell from photos.

Overall it looks like a nice drum without extra holes and correct parts in an uncommon finish.

Hope this helps!
 
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bellbrass

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The wrap is a more unusual type that shows up on some early Camco drums, but it is original and not faded. The drums looks good as far as the photos, even having the chubby washers and original Camco 12 strand snare wires (which would have come on this drum). The "economy" strainer is the earlier of two versions, and is not damaged or replaced. The badge looks like it is an original. The newer reissue badges are nice, but one update is that they have adhesive on the back so that they don't rotate at all. If a badge looks too perfect, seeing if it will move a little may be one indicator whether it is new or a reissue. The only thing that is a bit unusual on this drum is the grommet. It looks old, but I would have expected to see a chrome plated one on an earlier Oaklawn. There isn't a picture of the inside showing the grommet, and whether it has been messed with at all. It might be worth asking for a photo showing that. With these drums it is always possible that an interior has been repainted, and this can be hard to tell from photos.

Overall it looks like a nice drum without extra holes and correct parts in an uncommon finish.

Hope this helps!
Thanks so much, Prufrock. Do you think it's a 4-ply shell? I saw the grommet, too - I guess it's unrealistic to think that they somehow took an old, corroded grommet and used it to mount a new repro badge. I looked as closely as I could at the badge, and the gold border looked to me more like the repro badge than an original - but it's hard to see, and I'm no expert. Then again, most people do not reuse grommets, so I would have expected a shiny new one if they used a repro badge. Also - if you think the wrap is original, then why would they have replaced the badge? The answer is maybe they didn't. If the interior has been repainted, I'm not really bothered by that - I'm just trying to avoid a counterfeit, and it looks like this drum is at least mostly original. If the seller did indeed buy at one of the Chicago Shows, then it's likely legit. Thanks again for the insight; just bought it!
 
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Prufrock

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Congratulations! It looks like a really nice example, and I would agree with what you say about the grommet. I'd think that is a 4-ply drum. The wrap is pretty uncommon - it will look strange next to the regular version of champagne sparkle. Hope you enjoy it when it arrives!
 

Osahead2

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It certainly is a beautiful wrap. Yes Prufrock is correct it's original and yes, I have seen two very different Camco champagne sparkle wraps during early Oaklawn era.

Wow, I can just imagine how hard life would be trying to collect that version champagne sparkle orphans to complete a kit.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Side Q as I've not seen or played Camco drums: that lug looks like the B&B of Rogers - is it just as brittle or is the hardware quality of Camco better than B&B? (I prefer Rogers beavertails - they are solid on my kit!).......
 

bellbrass

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Congratulations! It looks like a really nice example, and I would agree with what you say about the grommet. I'd think that is a 4-ply drum. The wrap is pretty uncommon - it will look strange next to the regular version of champagne sparkle. Hope you enjoy it when it arrives!
Thanks again...hmmm; never owned a 4-ply Camco. I know there are Camco afficiandos that prefer the 4-ply shells. I guess this drum is going to be more of a George Way drum than an Oaklawn Camco that came after George was no longer part of the operation, and it was John Rochon's deal. Do you think it will sound different to the 6-ply Oaklawn shell? I wonder if those 4-ply shells were undersized like the 6-ply were.
I agree it seems to be a beautiful drum, and at first, I thought the wrap was the common Delmar Champagne that was ubiquitous at the time, only with the copper sparkles very oxidized...but now I wonder if it is an entirely different wrap.
 
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bellbrass

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It certainly is a beautiful wrap. Yes Prufrock is correct it's original and yes, I have seen two very different Camco champagne sparkle wraps during early Oaklawn era.

Wow, I can just imagine how hard life would be trying to collect that version champagne sparkle orphans to complete a kit.
Thanks for your input - I'm excited now that both of you seem to think it's all original, or close - not so much because I am a purist, but because "that sound" can only be had with all of the major components in place (COB hoops, original throwoff / butt, shell without extra holes, etc.). What is your take on 4-ply shells, if that is in fact what I have? I may take some nice photos when I get it for Show & Tell.
 

Prufrock

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That is indeed a Studio model, and the shell will be 5 inches or there abouts. The shells are the same size (and thickness) for George Way (3 and later 4-ply) and for the Oaklawn and Chanute drums. A little undersized (heads fit fine). The 4-ply shells have a bit of a Gretsch sound, but with the COB Camco hoops giving a bit more openness than the die cast Gretsch hoops. As mentioned in a recent thread, the sound of the Camco snare drums can vary depending on the bearing edge, so it will be interesting to hear how sharp or rounded the edges are on the drum you have purchased, and what you think of the sound.

Changing the snare wires can also impact the sound. Sometimes I like the sound of original wires when they are in good condition. If I do replace them, I tend to use the Puresound 12 strand wires to keep close to the original intention, and also since I like to focus on the tone of the drum more. I also think that the 12 strand wires tend to work best for the snare beds, although 16 and possibly 20 could work as well.

For the classic sound a coated Ambassador batter is hard to beat; saying this, I often use an Aquarian texture coated head for a bit more rounded and punchy tone.

Looking forward to some pictures and your impressions when the drum arrives!
 

Prufrock

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Side Q as I've not seen or played Camco drums: that lug looks like the B&B of Rogers - is it just as brittle or is the hardware quality of Camco better than B&B? (I prefer Rogers beavertails - they are solid on my kit!).......
The Camco "streamlined" Tuxedo lugs don't seem to have any inherent problems with cracking.
 

Osahead2

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Thanks for your input - I'm excited now that both of you seem to think it's all original, or close - not so much because I am a purist, but because "that sound" can only be had with all of the major components in place (COB hoops, original throwoff / butt, shell without extra holes, etc.). What is your take on 4-ply shells, if that is in fact what I have? I may take some nice photos when I get it for Show & Tell.
I love the Camco 4-ply sound. I have a few but they are very hard to find over the 6-ply ones. To me the Camco 4-ply snare drum with the right snare wires sound very "woody" which is perfect for my type of jazz drumming (50s/60s). I think you will be very happy with your snare drum. Congratulations!
 

bellbrass

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That is indeed a Studio model, and the shell will be 5 inches or there abouts. The shells are the same size (and thickness) for George Way (3 and later 4-ply) and for the Oaklawn and Chanute drums. A little undersized (heads fit fine). The 4-ply shells have a bit of a Gretsch sound, but with the COB Camco hoops giving a bit more openness than the die cast Gretsch hoops. As mentioned in a recent thread, the sound of the Camco snare drums can vary depending on the bearing edge, so it will be interesting to hear how sharp or rounded the edges are on the drum you have purchased, and what you think of the sound.

Changing the snare wires can also impact the sound. Sometimes I like the sound of original wires when they are in good condition. If I do replace them, I tend to use the Puresound 12 strand wires to keep close to the original intention, and also since I like to focus on the tone of the drum more. I also think that the 12 strand wires tend to work best for the snare beds, although 16 and possibly 20 could work as well.

For the classic sound a coated Ambassador batter is hard to beat; saying this, I often use an Aquarian texture coated head for a bit more rounded and punchy tone.

Looking forward to some pictures and your impressions when the drum arrives!
Thanks for the info. I did some thread searching here, and found some earlier comments from you, Osahead2 and DolFan54 where pretty much the same thing was said about the 4-ply shells...more "Gretsch-y" and slightly more woody than the 6-ply sound. I have a Frankenstein Camco 6-ply 5" snare already; it will interesting to compare these two.
My two cents: the undersized shells are a significant part of the sound, and I'd bet that the 6-ply, and maybe the 4-ply shells are maple/gum layups, since they came from Jasper. Just my hunch, nothing more.
Interesting about what you said regarding the 12-strand wires. I've never had a set; I will definitely be looking for that difference in sound.
 

bellbrass

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I love the Camco 4-ply sound. I have a few but they are very hard to find over the 6-ply ones. To me the Camco 4-ply snare drum with the right snare wires sound very "woody" which is perfect for my type of jazz drumming (50s/60s). I think you will be very happy with your snare drum. Congratulations!
Good to know. I might have purchased a somewhat rare snare drum, which is cool...hope I like the sound - but I bet it sounds great. The Frankenstein Camco 5-ply snare I already have sounds fantastic - in fact, it's hard to believe how good it sounds. Camco 6-ply shell, red sparkle rewrap, streamline lugs, beer-tap throwoff, and Drum Factory Direct COB hoops. Amazing sound. Paint is coming off the inside of the shell, and I don't care. Normally that kind of thing bothers the heck out of me.
 

Prufrock

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I wondered about that myself...or, perhaps the hole where the tone control used to go?
Definitely the key holder. The Studio model did not come with a tone control (although every once in a while you'll see one installed). The tone control knob - if it had a Camco one installed - would be to the panel to the right of the badge.
 

bellbrass

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Definitely the key holder. The Studio model did not come with a tone control (although every once in a while you'll see one installed). The tone control knob - if it had a Camco one installed - would be to the panel to the right of the badge.
Thanks for the answer...I'd prefer a keyholder rather than an orphaned tone control knob any day.
 

drumtimejohn

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I play an early 60s tuxedo 6 ply with a 4 ply studio. Same edges, COB hoops. They sound perfect together and an improvement over a brighter wood Powertone I was using. As noted above, woody. Here are pics of two different champagnes.
1623378322289.jpeg

1623378360464.jpeg
 

DrumR69

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Beautiful snare
The only thing I see missing is a spring on strainer and a key to fit the key holder.
Congrats
Wayne
63328897-4B8A-4059-A929-55639187610D.jpeg
4095C81E-167A-44CF-A8E2-3F2FFB0C7CD0.jpeg
 


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