Jazz

felis

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Better to have a full wash to fill in the spectrum, or more clicky definition to define the swing?
 

JimmySticks

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Well, some jazzers are going for those super dark/dry cymbals, which has zero wash. You will get that stick definition, but the lack of wash leaves a big hole in your sound when you leave the ride to do a fill. They also don't crash well, so you lose that option as well. I didn't like them very much and sold them off pretty quickly.

I like a slightly dark cymbal but with a nice wash to keep the sound going when I move off it to do fills.

So to answer your question - for me, more wash, less stick definition, like maybe 70-30%, but you might get different answers.
 

JDA

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Better to have a full wash to fill in the spectrum, or more clicky definition to define the swing?
both..
that's what Ks are about and all the K type cymbals that came after them;
A's can do it to (and all the cymbals that came after them)
See As as more major (sunny) key
Ks as (darker) Minor key.
And all cymbal flow from that.
Bout it in a nutshell.Have both.
Short of a Flatride. Short of a Swish.
 
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GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

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Better to have a full wash to fill in the spectrum, or more clicky definition to define the swing?
Yes.

That might sound like an unhelpful answer, but I think the dream is for a balance of both. I know for me I'm always looking for clicky and clear stick definition on top of a bed of wash. The reality however is that it's difficult to find a perfect balance of both, so my cymbal setup has some that have a bit more wash, while others have a bit more stick. That way I can pick and choose what's appropriate for a given song/section.
 

Seb77

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I like a lot of wash, rivets and all, but it shouldn't be too high sounding. The problem with some thin cymbals is they go into "crash overdrive" mode too easily, which will obscure the stick and also cover up other instrument sounds. If the wash is on the low side, you normally can coax enough stick click.
I think Billy Hart gets a a great washy sound that way:

On the other end of the spectrum, I also like Jack Deohnette's dry sounds, but for slow pieces, I might prefer a longer sound.
 

JDA

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If the the thin cymbal is flat in bow profile it won't wash up.
all 20" K Intermediate
20 Bosphorus Trad Thin Ride
come to mind 2
medium to full cup;

dark lightweight and sticky

there's some other old ks also
type 4 and 3s. wide low profile cup, flat bow profile, lightweight
Stick dark control
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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Listen to your favorite drummers and see if you can find out what they’re playing. (All cymbals are going to be a little different). My view is that most jazzers tend to have some element of wash. But you can always have one washy, one dry as contrast. Mel Lewis somewhere was talking about the need for some wash to fill out the sound in the band.

But don’t ignore other aspects like stick choices, touch, and tape if desired. My personal favorite sounds are Brian Blade. So I ended up finding some stuff in that ballpark a long time ago. I have my clicky sound on the right, and wet sound on left. But at the end of the day, it’s still me playing, and it’s up to me to make the sounds I want to hear…and to develop my personal sound. Still, it doesn’t hurt to be inspired by a sound and to more or less go after that vibe. Cuz it’s still you in the end.
 
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JimmySticks

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I like a lot of wash, rivets and all, but it shouldn't be too high sounding. The problem with some thin cymbals is they go into "crash overdrive" mode too easily, which will obscure the stick and also cover up other instrument sounds. If the wash is on the low side, you normally can coax enough stick click.
I think Billy Hart gets a a great washy sound that way:

On the other end of the spectrum, I also like Jack Deohnette's dry sounds, but for slow pieces, I might prefer a longer sound.
"Longer sound", I think that's the phrase I'm looking for when trying to describe what a dark/dry cymbal lacks.

I also like rivets, but usually only one, in my rides. It really brings a cymbal to life
 

TPC

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Anything can work.

Jack D with Keith Jarrett Standards. Isty Turks - dead dry.

Tony. Big, crashy wash all over the place.

One's own ears and imagination are what's needed to define what is right for them.
 

JDA

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it's touch placement and event
either you create the event or you don't
not sure the cymbal is the main ingredient
as much as it is -the operator-
in the moment
````````````

cymbals (and drums for that matter) don't make a damn sound on their own
Ha!
 
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Matched Gripper

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Better to have a full wash to fill in the spectrum, or more clicky definition to define the swing?
In my view, it depends on what kind of jazz. For bebop, Philly Joe Jones’ clicking attack and dark subtle wash that never overtakes the attack is the signature sound I listen for. It takes a very thin cymbal to do that.

Although, years ago I saw a video demo of Sinclair showing how to achieve the Philly Joe click by changing his grip. I couldn’t do it.
 

JimmySticks

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it's touch placement and event
either you create the event or you don't
not sure the cymbal is the main ingredient
as much as it is -the operator-
in the moment
````````````

cymbals (and drums for that matter) don't make a damn sound on their own
Ha!
I get where you're coming from Joe!

Learning that has been a painfully slow process for some reason though. I guess we all like to think the sound is in the gear, like, if I just get that next cymbal, I'll sound like (name your drummer)
 

sternerp

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I used a K Custom Dark 20" Ride for years, but felt that there was too much wash when I was playing swing. I got a K Custom Dry 20", and really appreciate the ping on the swing, without muddying things up. It's all personal preference. There is no wrong choice, as long as you (and the rest of the band) like the sound.
 

tbird8450

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This.

I wouldn't sacrifice a lot of one for a lot of the other for most jazz situations, but if I had to choose I'd take some good solid stick definition with minimal wash to a lot of wash and the sticks get lost.
 

Sinclair

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He does have magic hands!
I've thought of two snappy come backs for that line. One is thanks for the kind words gents...the other is extremely sexist and would get me banned from the forum. :)

My general though is...if it's live and anyone on stage happens to be listening...the louder the music ,the more stick definition I like. The exception perhaps being balls out Rockin' Roll. In the studio you might go thinner turn and get away with murder.
 
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TrickRoll

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it's touch placement and event
either you create the event or you don't
not sure the cymbal is the main ingredient
as much as it is -the operator-
in the moment
````````````

cymbals (and drums for that matter) don't make a damn sound on their own
Ha!
Wisdom!
 
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