Jim Gordon's Camco set

BonzoBonham

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thin shell

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More reason to doubt the validity of the Jim Gordon claim...
Why is that?

Do you have an inventory list of everything Jim owned?

It is an Oaklawn snare that looks like it was barely used. He could have gotten one early on and just never liked it so it didn't get used much or at all. I do think I have seen a couple of pictures of him with a Camco snare early on but that wouldn't prove that this is that snare. Doesn't invalidate the drum set at all. This snare will be a harder sell because there is no way to authenticate it unless there are some period pictures somewhere that show the grain. Most of the time it looks like Jim played a LM600. At this point that is a nice Oaklawn snare but that's about it. I think I have provided enough evidence that the kit is what they say it is with some certainty regardless whether you choose to see it or not.
 

bellbrass

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Why is that?

Do you have an inventory list of everything Jim owned?

It is an Oaklawn snare that looks like it was barely used. He could have gotten one early on and just never liked it so it didn't get used much or at all. I do think I have seen a couple of pictures of him with a Camco snare early on but that wouldn't prove that this is that snare. Doesn't invalidate the drum set at all. This snare will be a harder sell because there is no way to authenticate it unless there are some period pictures somewhere that show the grain. Most of the time it looks like Jim played a LM600. At this point that is a nice Oaklawn snare but that's about it. I think I have provided enough evidence that the kit is what they say it is with some certainty regardless whether you choose to see it or not.
And some of us have the right to disagree with your evidence. You haven't "proven" that kit was Jim's.
 

thin shell

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And some of us have the right to disagree with your evidence. You haven't "proven" that kit was Jim's.
That's all fine and good but you still didn't answer my question. I have offered a lot of evidence and all you have offered is "I have bad eyes".
 

bellbrass

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That's all fine and good but you still didn't answer my question. I have offered a lot of evidence and all you have offered is "I have bad eyes".
I looked at your "evidence", and all I saw was a lot of squiggles across photos with poor resolution. Not enough, by any means, to convince me that was a kit Jim owned. To be fair, you have done some good work with the photos. But you seem hell-bent on winning the argument that the drums in the eBay auction are the drums Jim had in the MD article. Were we talking about a difference of a couple hundred bucks, I'd say, "Who cares." But somebody out there is probably going to pay in excess of $3K for a kit he/she really thinks is one of Jim's kits. "Who cares about Jim Gordon, except us drum nerds?" Apparently, a lot more people than we think.
I have the capability, though, of saying "I'm wrong." I may be wrong about this. It may be Jim's old kit. Once again, I may be wrong. But I don't think so.
 

JDA

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What's the big deal. Whomever wants these (or any drums) WANTS them. No chiding no placing of doubt No quibbles one way or the other DETER a Determined drummer (us).. Good Luck
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I don't know about the kit but I do know a local lawyer who has Jim Gordon's drum set case (no drums) for sale - if anyone is interested......PM me.

"Jim Gordon (Derek and the Dominoes) Roadcase $675.00 or b/o "
 

JDA

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But somebody out there is probably going to pay in excess of $3K for a kit he/she really thinks is one of Jim's kits
A person with an excess of 3K to pay for drums doesn't need any sympathy, care or concern,. they are pretty much an on-your-own- full grown- adult. It's pretty hard to be dumb and wealthy at the same time I haven't figured a way to do it... (yet..
whomever is the eventual owner I don't think is equivalent to a 17 year old kid looking at a used ZBT for 250$ in a shop and needs coached..I Seriously doubt it.
This buyer is going to make his or her own judgement
 
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bellbrass

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A person with an excess of 3K to pay for drums doesn't need any sympathy, care or concern,. they are pretty much an on-your-own- full grown- adult. It's pretty hard to be dumb and wealthy at the same time I haven't figured a way to do it... (yet..
whomever is the eventual owner I don't think is equivalent to a 17 year old kid looking at a used ZBT for 250$ in a shop and needs coached..I Seriously doubt it.
This buyer is going to make his or her own judgement
True. But if a buyer is making a decision based on information that may be faulty, they have the right to know that. Just ask anyone who has paid top dollar for a forged autograph.
 

JDA

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No he wouldn't even be looking at these drums. If he didn't have a sense----and some SENSE. And if not----3 grand don't mean much to him! heck on it.

We can toss it around here----but the final decision will be someone elses. No interference. It's not our job. I know what you mean. But anyone looking at this particular auction of drums is a...mature enough/ know what I mean..
He's not looking at baseball cards or a pitchers mitt.
This is a musical instrument or he's a what was the word they used call people...Eccentric- type. You can't stop that type. And if on the other hand the drums are accurate then---he's Right he's right.

It's not anyone that needs help or needs swayed. If he's swayed he doesn't have what it takes to be the last bidder. That's the way this real life works. It's money and a material object. Nothing beyond that. There's no spiritual There's no moral there's none of that.
But we can talk about it.
 
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JDA

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That's why I questioned anyone putting their fine 2 cents in (That was Thin Shell) I don't sometimes- see the need- to say for Example- Tell a seller-----who has an Old K Zildjian on auction---advertised as an A. Zildjian. Some guys rush to their keyboard to send off a PM to correct/educate/ the seller.
I got a problem with that sometimes.

This situation is a little different. All the odds are stacking up it's close enough (for jazz) as being a Camco set.


:) thats as far as I'm going :D
 

JDA

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It would (wood?) have been nice if he'd had put the snare with the set...Can't see anyone paying near 1K for the snare alone. That may be residing on Gelb's shelf for years to come with a Tag on it..
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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I’m sure the snare is nice, and rare, but I never hear anyone going out of their way for a Camco wood snare. Not like the sets.

Heck, Doug Clifford played the Ludwig mahogany. Personally, I think he played the auditorium 6.5...could’ve probably used a matching Camco snare with his set but didn’t.
 

thin shell

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That's why I questioned anyone putting their fine 2 cents in (That was Thin Shell) I don't sometimes- see the need- to say for Example- Tell a seller-----who has an Old K Zildjian on auction---advertised as an A. Zildjian. Some guys rush to their keyboard to send off a PM to correct/educate/ the seller.
I got a problem with that sometimes.

This situation is a little different. All the odds are stacking up it's close enough (for jazz) as being a Camco set.


:) thats as far as I'm going :D
I don't normally contact sellers who haven't done their due diligence but as you say this is a bit different. This is potentially a significant drum set so I felt it was worth getting those extra pictures of the other side of the 12" for my own to see if they were really his. When I saw enough data points that pointed to a match I decided to provide my interpretation to the seller.

Nobody had picked up on the fact that Jim used the 12" mounted upside down and the seller had it right side up.

When I saw Bellbrass's post he made some pretty bold statements so I decided to join the thread.


I saw that auction last night, and right away, I knew it probably wasn't Jim's kit. The first thing: Jim's kit was a late-60s Oaklawn kit with Oaklawn badges, if my sources / research is correct. The eBay kit is a Chanute-badged kit. Second thing: the kit in the auction doesn't really look like a Walnut finish;
I have no idea where Jim's Camco kit is, but I'd bet all my drums that the kit in this auction never belonged to him.
The last statement was so over the top that I had to post. I didn't take him seriously on the bet part but he seems pretty sure of himself to have said such a thing.

Well through this little exercise we have learned that he had two Camco Kits, that he had a 24" bass drum while with Derek and the Dominos. I found what I think is a match between a picture from '74 and from '81 to the auction pictures as well as a TV show that shows him playing a Camco kit with Ludwig mounts with hose clamps as memory locks and the same color finish as the ones in the auction. All of this provides a pretty good argument that Jim had an Oaklawn kit and a Chanute kit and that one of them was this funky color. In Jim's own words he said he had two Camco sets and that he played a '24 bass drum early on.
I have learned a lot about Jim and his equipment so it has been fun.

 

thin shell

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It would (wood?) have been nice if he'd had put the snare with the set...Can't see anyone paying near 1K for the snare alone. That may be residing on Gelb's shelf for years to come with a Tag on it..
They have zero chance on the snare without proper paperwork.
 

JDA

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'Tis becoming a battle Royale...

 
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