Jim Gordon's Camco set

thin shell

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Interesting picture.

This is the caption on Getty images:
"Photo of DEREK & The DOMINOS and Jim GORDON
UNITED KINGDOM - JANUARY 01: Photo of DEREK & The DOMINOS and Jim GORDON; recording in Command Studios (Photo by Estate Of Keith Morris/Redferns)"

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This picture appears to be taken at the same time





The only thing in that caption that appears to be correct is that it is Jim Gordon. The date is too late for the first album and they recorded it in Florida not not London. Anyone know where those sessions took place or recognize this studio? The second album recording session supposedly started in May 1971 so that doesn't match either unless it was for some demos or rehearsals. It does show him playing a 6 1/2 Camco snare that appears to be walnut finish. I'm not saying that this proves anything about the snare up for auction but there is at least this one picture of him playing one.
 

p83

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i've been watching this and have to say at the end of the day........................you either have a valid COA from the artist/estate or all you have is a set of drums.
 

thin shell

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i've been watching this and have to say at the end of the day........................you either have a valid COA from the artist/estate or all you have is a set of drums.
So you are saying that once the chain is broken you can never prove something's authenticity?

Do you question that this is actually John's guitar?


This was identified by the scratches and the pattern of the pearloid pick guard but it was authenticated by the wood grain.

“He [Andy Babiuk] made it very clear that this might be a forgery and that he needed better pictures of the wood grain, because, in his words, ‘the wood grain is the DNA of the guitar,’” says Intravaia. With Babiuk holding all the original records and receipts for Lennon and Harrison’s Rushworth’s guitar purchases, his would be the definitive word on whether this was or wasn't John Lennon's long-lost Gibson."

"John brought the guitar over to my house and my daughter Sierra started shooting. We searched for the best light, and our neighbors must have wondered why we were laying this old scratched up guitar on a towel in the driveway while fussing over camera angles. Sierra took over a hundred pictures of the instrument, and I sent the best pictures to Andy and waited for a response."


Intravaia was delighted when “I received a call from Andy confirming that it was John Lennon’s guitar.”

I am not holding myself as a certified expert but I have applied the same logic here. I am not saying that it is his drum set for certain. I have just presented what I see which is quite a bit and anyone can form their own opinion.

Stuff get's authenticated all of the time where the chain of custody was lost long ago.
 
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JDA

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i've been watching this and have to say at the end of the day........................you either have a valid COA from the artist/estate or all you have is a set of drums.
after it ends, it doesn't prevent further investigation- Gelb has some information- leads to the next guy that has info- that leads to the...what did they used to call that? Shoe leather..tracking something down.
 

bellbrass

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In the end, I seriously doubt that anyone can prove or disprove the validity of the claim that the kit (or..now a snare?) ever belonged to Jim. The reasons are fairly unique here; Neither Jim nor anyone from his estate is available to corroborate the claims. Even if Jim somehow could speak to the claim that it was his at one point, his mental state, and the fact that he has been away from his possessions for so long, would make even his own statements dubious at best.
People from Jim's family would also not be likely to speak to the validity of any instrument.
If someone put a kit for sale on eBay (or anywhere else) and claimed it belonged to Mitch Mitchell, it would either have a COA, photographic proof (beyond doubt), or a statement of validity from someone close to him. And if it were fraudulent, you'd better bet someone would step up to the plate and either have the auction removed, or otherwise expose the kit as a fake. Nobody is likely to do that in the case of Jim Gordon. So...as was mentioned before...we need only wait for a Walnut Camco kit to be offered as the kit he played on Layla, or the snare he played with Delaney & Bonnie, or the tom toms he played on Jump Into The Fire.
All we will ever likely have is "A guy who knew the dude that knew Jim"....etc. There is a forum member here who claims to have bought some of Jim's cymbals. I was contacted years ago by a guy who claimed to have all of Jim's snares. Guess what? He had them for sale. And so on and so on.
 

thin shell

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In the end, I seriously doubt that anyone can prove or disprove the validity of the claim that the kit (or..now a snare?) ever belonged to Jim. The reasons are fairly unique here; Neither Jim nor anyone from his estate is available to corroborate the claims. Even if Jim somehow could speak to the claim that it was his at one point, his mental state, and the fact that he has been away from his possessions for so long, would make even his own statements dubious at best.
People from Jim's family would also not be likely to speak to the validity of any instrument.
If someone put a kit for sale on eBay (or anywhere else) and claimed it belonged to Mitch Mitchell, it would either have a COA, photographic proof (beyond doubt), or a statement of validity from someone close to him. And if it were fraudulent, you'd better bet someone would step up to the plate and either have the auction removed, or otherwise expose the kit as a fake. Nobody is likely to do that in the case of Jim Gordon. So...as was mentioned before...we need only wait for a Walnut Camco kit to be offered as the kit he played on Layla, or the snare he played with Delaney & Bonnie, or the tom toms he played on Jump Into The Fire.
All we will ever likely have is "A guy who knew the dude that knew Jim"....etc. There is a forum member here who claims to have bought some of Jim's cymbals. I was contacted years ago by a guy who claimed to have all of Jim's snares. Guess what? He had them for sale. And so on and so on.
So did you read the article I posted about John Lennon's lost Gibson and how they used the wood grain to authenticate the guitar? All of the pick marks matched and even the pick guard pattern matched but because those could have all been duplicated it came down to the grain of the wood. It sold at auction for over $2 million. You think there is any ambiguity in the findings about it's authenticity? If it had been a guitar with a painted top there would have been no real way to authenticate it but because it had a natural finish and there were good pictures of the grain, they could match them just like a fingerprint.

Whoever ends up with this kit will probably spend time, money and effort and track down better pictures that will provide a clearer example of the grain and then have a certified expert give the thumbs up or thumbs down.
 

Frank Godiva

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Interesting picture.

This is the caption on Getty images:
"Photo of DEREK & The DOMINOS and Jim GORDON
UNITED KINGDOM - JANUARY 01: Photo of DEREK & The DOMINOS and Jim GORDON; recording in Command Studios (Photo by Estate Of Keith Morris/Redferns)"

View attachment 405823


This picture appears to be taken at the same time





The only thing in that caption that appears to be correct is that it is Jim Gordon. The date is too late for the first album and they recorded it in Florida not not London. Anyone know where those sessions took place or recognize this studio? The second album recording session supposedly started in May 1971 so that doesn't match either unless it was for some demos or rehearsals. It does show him playing a 6 1/2 Camco snare that appears to be walnut finish. I'm not saying that this proves anything about the snare up for auction but there is at least this one picture of him playing one.
The dates right for the recording of the second album in London where EC and JG had a falling out and the band broke up and the second LP was never finished. The version
Of Evil from those session can be found on box sets and is just killer
 

Tama CW

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There's actual evidence presented here. Which is the way it should be. That sure beats anything else....including opinions.

Most vintage memorabilia items sold these days are done so on the preponderance of their "look" or fabric, provenance, and evidence. It the scales tip far enough one way....it's a win. 100% proof is a lofty goal. And for me, "estate tags" or "coa's" are far from from fool proof....they aren't even evidence. Let the item speak for itself...which is 80% of the battle. If the item can't speak for itself, all the coa's in the world aren't worth a hill of beans.
 

charlesm

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It seems to be lost on some people here that thin shell has established an actual grain match between the drum in the auction and the drum in the Jim Gordon photo.

I see it plain as day, myself.

And, no, it's not just a coincidence.

This is beside all of the other physical and circumstantial evidence that would seem to make perfect sense.

For those who think this is all somehow not very important or not that interesting, yes, understood. No need to reassert.

I'm sure I join others who are very curious to see how this story turns out, considering the stature of the player who might just have owned this kit and the monumental music that would have been recorded on it.
 
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JDA

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pressroll at mezzopiano please...

 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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34 bids and it’s a battle among the wealthy!! Getting out the popcorn. Who will win this kit? Will it sit in someone’s living room, or will it grace the stage!? We may never know! Either way, someone is going to Camco town today!
 

Jpollard8

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my money was on 27...
YOU DID it.. I was fearing snipe but (tg) it didn't materialize
Thank you! I had a lot more cued up above 4K. It would have had to be a really good sniper “shot”! I’ve been digging and gotten some other pieces of info that hadn’t been brought to light here. Lots more legwork to be done. But I feel pretty confident it’s his kit. When I get more work done and pieces to the puzzle I will update at that point. Been a lot of fun reading this thread and investigating and studying past few days. If anybody else ever has or gets and other info please message me. Thanks everyone!
 

Radio King

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Thank you! I had a lot more cued up above 4K. It would have had to be a really good sniper “shot”! I’ve been digging and gotten some other pieces of info that hadn’t been brought to light here. Lots more legwork to be done. But I feel pretty confident it’s his kit. When I get more work done and pieces to the puzzle I will update at that point. Been a lot of fun reading this thread and investigating and studying past few days. If anybody else ever has or gets and other info please message me. Thanks everyone!
Awesome, Jpollard8! Congrats!
 

Treviso1

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Thank you! I had a lot more cued up above 4K. It would have had to be a really good sniper “shot”! I’ve been digging and gotten some other pieces of info that hadn’t been brought to light here. Lots more legwork to be done. But I feel pretty confident it’s his kit. When I get more work done and pieces to the puzzle I will update at that point. Been a lot of fun reading this thread and investigating and studying past few days. If anybody else ever has or gets and other info please message me. Thanks everyone!
Congratulations and good for you. I am convinced that it is THE kit pictured in the MD pictures and I am happy that they went to someone cool on this site.
 

Prufrock

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Thank you! I had a lot more cued up above 4K. It would have had to be a really good sniper “shot”! I’ve been digging and gotten some other pieces of info that hadn’t been brought to light here. Lots more legwork to be done. But I feel pretty confident it’s his kit. When I get more work done and pieces to the puzzle I will update at that point. Been a lot of fun reading this thread and investigating and studying past few days. If anybody else ever has or gets and other info please message me. Thanks everyone!
Well done! I think you made a good purchase. Looking forward to future updates on your research!
 

Tama CW

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$4000 bid took it. 5 incremental max bids by the winner today above the $4000 shows determination. Though other bidders (and seller) can see all that and could have been tempted to run you up. Glad you got it without having to use that max bid. Only 2 bidders above $3400 on this kit. And by the 1400+ feed backs of the other bidder, they could have been a vintage drum resaler.
 
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