John Riley's K Zildjian Collection

JDA

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people are still curious..
mystery.
~
gram weights from the drummers left to right are (old K Con) 1280/890, 2240, 2680.

the Constantinople name stayed on the K Zildjian way past 1917--frankly up until 1940- when it changed to Istanbul on the cymbals. (that would be the first old stamp Type I K Istanbul http://robscott.net/cymbals/k-istanbul/1/
~~
always recommended if you have an old Zildjian K Con heavy- use it as a hi hat bottom- I do as John does above and have for many years.
 
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rimtap

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Thanks for sharing this, marc3k!
 

hsosdrum

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I really like his description of "rain-forest overtones". To me that exactly captures the feeling I get from those cymbals.
 

Tama CW

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Weights are listed in the YouTube text........... 1180/1315, 2090, 2660. And probably all IS/NS. Doesn't say if those hats are 14's or 15's....look like 15's. For 2660 gm that 22 inch seems pretty airy and smooth.....sounds lighter. Has a very nice light crash to it. A touch dark....and no real harshness.

Note to self....don't let a heavy hitter "famous" drummer test out your K Instanbuls or Trans Stamps. What a shame that 20" ride has that crack in it. I think I can hear that little bit of extra dryness/darkness that such a cut out would bring with it. These days, Jake could laser up such a crack.

part 3 premiers in 4 days on Sept 25th.

John Riley Part 3

Weights here are 1265/1100, 1995, 2700, 2660.

.
 
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JDA

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ah 3 is on -hold til Sept. 25th looks like three rides (2 not so skinny) and hats this time. I noticed the cymbals look pretty clean..which is ok and maybe he's never had them professionally (if that's a thing) cleaned or done it himself. But look how should I say maintained.
 

CC Cirillo

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I’m not a jazz player but I love jazz--and respect the relationship a jazz drummer has to his ride cymbals.

Mr. Riley is just so articulate in his descriptions. Really looking forward to the rest of this series, and hope they expand it to other players.

Aren’t we all a little curious who the player was who sat in on Mr. Riley’s Pastorius gig and cracked his 20” K…?
 

JazzDrumGuy

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His playing is so smooth....I love that left 20" in video #2. Interesting that the right side 22" is totally like the Bill Stewart designed Dry Complex rides......
 
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JDA

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John (and or someone) added the "Era Stamp" to each in the descriptions ! (good)..
 

JDA

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Part 1 was:
14" K Zildjian New/Constantinople Stamp - 890/1280g
20" K Zildjian New Stamp - 2240g
22" K Zildjian Intermediate Stamp - 2680g

Part 2 was:
14" K Zildjian Old l Stamp - 1180/1315g
20" K Zildjian New Stamp - 2090g
22" K Zildjian New Stamp - 2660g

parts 3 & 4 have been marked in description also
(but yet to premiere
Thanks John
 

Prufrock

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I just watched the third installment, and I have a question:

From what I have read and heard, a new cymbal has to age a little, and that one newly made can change character rather quickly and settle in to its character (some of the independent cymbalsmiths talk about this, and I recall seeing some videos by Craig Lauritsen, for example, where he plays new cymbals, and then plays them a little while later, and there is a difference in the sound characteristics).

I have also seen a number of people comment that an older cymbal might get "played out," which seems to imply that even great cymbals continue changing, and that a sort of metal fatigue might set in that not only changes the sound (perhaps in a good way, like aged drum shells), but may diminish it.

John Riley, however, speculated on something different: that a cymbal that has not been played for decades may sound a bit "dead" since it HASN'T been played, and that it might take some playing to bring out some of the good characteristics. He likens this to a violin that hasn't been played in a long time coming to life when it is played more. I've never heard this idea applied to cymbals, and wonder if anyone else has, and/or has experience with this idea of an older unplayed cymbal needing to be "broken in" or revived through playing.
 
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kevin klever

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I once found a very old instructional drum book made by Ludwig at a music store in a small town. Probably printed in 1940s. I think it focused on big band drumming. It has a little section about cymbals where it says that all cymbals have a lifespan, a limited amount of playing time before they lose their tension and become dead and lifeless (not cracked, just "played out"). I have it somewhere and I'll try to take a photo of the page. I found it funny because we tend to have the opposite view, that the more a cymbal has been played (without damaging it) the better - Maybe because we're generally more drawn to those that have a looser tension and darker sound, which would not have been desirable for drummers in big bands. Interesting though to think about cymbals like that, in the same way we view sticks and skins.
 

Prufrock

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That idea of a cymbal being "played out" is what I have heard. I hadn't heard Riley's suggestion that a cymbal that has been sitting for years may need playing to bring it back to life. Also, I am not sure if this is a NOS situation, or a cymbal that hasn't been played too much, but I tend to think this rather than one that has been played a lot, and then has been sitting. Again, he mentioned this in passing, so I thought it was worth exploring here, as it is a new concept, to me at least.

I should add another phenomenon: sometimes when I pull out a cymbal I haven't used in a while, I perceive it differently. It may sound better or worse than I remember. Sometimes when I leave a cymbal that isn't sounding quite right on the kit, and keep playing it, it starts sounding better, and when I switch back to a cymbal I "know" is great, it doesn't sound as good! I'm saying this in jest, but it is a funny thing when it happens. I'm thinking this has to do with familiarity with a sound, and coming to accept it (or tastes in sounds changing), rather than the cymbal actually changing its character.
 

JDA

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I've never heard this idea applied to cymbals, and wonder if anyone else has, and/or has experience with this idea of an older unplayed cymbal needing to be "broken in" or revived through playing.
Sort of reminds of a car that's been sitting..for months. (etc)
Taken out for a long cruise out on the highway and back.
all systems 'warmed' up again cleared and flowing

(or as _used to call it an "Italian tune up" : D
 
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JDA

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I hadn't heard Riley's suggestion that a cymbal that has been sitting for years may need playing to bring it back to life.
You see prior to it being shelved...it wasn't/ Hadn't been played out.
Just been neglected. That's what he's talking about. Revival of something dormant. (not "shot".
~
We have a member going thru that right now. On ebay he found a cymbal (this is a great story) that the Seller said her Husband found...while tearing down an old garage..up in the Rafters it was sitting. He almost "didn't" see it.

It's a 22" K Istanbul Zildjian from the middleish 60s. (bet ya she was surprised when she saw what it brung on ebay..)
Now it's the member (here who bought it) to revive it : D
and spring some life back into it..

I mentioned if he doesn't feel "up to it" ; send it to me; for awhile..
I'll give it an "Italian tune up"..
 
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JDA

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3) interesting just as a side note. John says the 22" old stamp II he "just acquired" in the past year (and did a record with it with Rich Perry.
So you know, "I'm endorsed but I's a free man!"..
(hey between me and you it's still a "genuine" Zildjian) anyway like to hear "that record"
maybe it's this August 26 2020 upload- -->


from the first notes I'd say yes it is. I'd say yeah. Yes.
<check it out>
 
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