K Con cymbal pairings?

GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
206
Reaction score
257
Location
Toronto, Ontario
While I know the best way to pair cymbals would be to try them side by side, I'm in a situation where that isn't possible. I currently have a 22" K Con MTL at just over 2500 g. It's the only K Con I've got, and I absolutely love it as my main ride. Looking to acquire a LSR/crash-ride to compliment it, and have an opportunity to pick up a used but excellent condition 20" K Con Medium at 2160 g. I know there are a million variables at play here, but wondering if I can get your opinions on this particular combination and how well they should (theoretically) pair. Thanks!
 

GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
206
Reaction score
257
Location
Toronto, Ontario
That's a rather meaty secondary ride. If it crashes well, it would be fine for me, but keep in mind it might be a thicker cymbal than the 22". You could listen to some Meds. in the same weight range to hear how they perform.
Yeah, my MTL is pretty washy with some trashiness to it, so my thinking was that the thickness of the medium may give me a more focussed sound and a nice contrast to the 22". From what I've heard most K Cons are pretty crushable, but the medium may be less so. Anyhow, thanks for your input, back to youtube for more videos!
 

Neal Pert

DFO Veteran
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
2,363
Reaction score
1,959
Location
Among the Coastal Elites
Sounds like your MTL could be an older one? Most of the newer ones are cleaner and less washy in my experience.

I mean, not to be that guy, but I have a 20" MTL that might meet your needs. It's a sweet cymbal.
 

JDA

DFO Star
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
21,343
Reaction score
10,246
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
I think you want something to counterbalance the 22 MTL. It might be the 20 Medium Con.
I'd just "fear" you'd ride the 20 Medium Con and the 22 MTL would be....the crash.
But that may be ok...
I don't "think" you'd want a 20 and a 22 MTL. That'd be like running two horses to the same side.

You do want something stiffer and dryer and more solid (its a word) just wonder if being a "20" will take the function of main ride away from the 22.


There's a 19" K Hybrid ride but no one has seen one.
(Bosphorus has so many more choices than Zildjian for left side rides making it.....so....darn...easy)
 
Last edited:

TPC

Very well Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
648
Reaction score
817
Location
San Pablo, CA
Elvin used to have his heavier cymbal on the left so that Medium could work great for you.

But for me, I need something very crashable on the left, and a K Con Medium Ride is too much cymbal. People rave about the 19” Kerope, so if we’re talking current Z offerings, that’s where I’d go. Or a nice, thin 50’s A. Perfection.
 

poco rit.

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
252
Reaction score
232
Location
Texas
Whenever i run two cymbals, i do a 22” K Con Rennaisance at 2400 grams, and a 20” Kerope at 2000 grams on the left. Good combo for what i do and my taste.

Imo another 20” K Con will no doubt work. Just maybe not the medium you were looking at. But literally any other model in the line. At approx 2000 grams.
 

GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
206
Reaction score
257
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I'm waiting on a sound file which may help to bring me some clarity. I've been alternating between my 18" and 19" A Avedis cymbals on the left, which are similar sizes and weights to what's been suggested and both great for crashing and riding. I love them, but find them a bit too different in character from the K Con to feel cohesive. I'll keep an eye out for something exactly 1633g though, I'm sure one will pop up on Kijiji any day now....
 

JDA

DFO Star
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
21,343
Reaction score
10,246
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
that's what I mean Zildjian just does (not) cater to/ 19/18/ rides/
shame on them) (they're crash-crazy tho) (and imo that's (just) not it..)
need something stable to ride on
 

Rick

Very well Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
599
Reaction score
528
Location
Atlanta
While I know the best way to pair cymbals would be to try them side by side, I'm in a situation where that isn't possible. I currently have a 22" K Con MTL at just over 2500 g. It's the only K Con I've got, and I absolutely love it as my main ride. Looking to acquire a LSR/crash-ride to compliment it, and have an opportunity to pick up a used but excellent condition 20" K Con Medium at 2160 g. I know there are a million variables at play here, but wondering if I can get your opinions on this particular combination and how well they should (theoretically) pair. Thanks!
I have a 20" K Con Medium. Great cymbal! But I'm not sure it would fit your purpose.
 

Tama CW

DFO Veteran
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
2,735
Reaction score
1,957
Location
SE Connecticut
I have a 19" Trans Stamp A (1690 gm) and a 20" Trans Stamp (1745 gm) that are both decent LSRs against my 22" K ride (2540 gm). Both of those have some K-qualities that allow them to fill that role.

Last time I had a modern (2017 mfg) 20" K Ride (medium 2250 gm) it was nearly a twin one of my 20" Trans stamps at the same weight range. I didn't expect that.
 

GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
206
Reaction score
257
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Sounds like your MTL could be an older one? Most of the newer ones are cleaner and less washy in my experience.

I mean, not to be that guy, but I have a 20" MTL that might meet your needs. It's a sweet cymbal.
Actually it's brand new. guess we can thank Zildjian's famous inconsistency for that. Or maybe my idea of a washy cymbal is different from yours relatively speaking. It's got a lot of wash, but the low pitch and defined stick sound turn the wash into a roaring cushion of sound beneath the sticking. Anyhow, I digress...

The point here was that I had an opportunity to score a great deal on a 20" medium, not that I'm actively searching for a cymbal right now (at least that's what I'm telling myself). After lots of listening (to you folks and sound samples), it seems the 20" would be a great main ride, but probably not high pitched and crashable enough to serve as my ideal LSR. I like the advice from others here that says just about any other K Con 20" would be better (the Renaissance appeals to me a lot, as do the bounce and over hammered).

I also do agree with JDA though, that it might make more sense to run a different K Con rather than 2 MTLs for more variety. Still, any chance you could give me more info about your 20"? Thanks!
 

GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
206
Reaction score
257
Location
Toronto, Ontario
that's what I mean Zildjian just does (not) cater to/ 19/18/ rides/
shame on them) (they're crash-crazy tho) (and imo that's (just) not it..)
need something stable to ride on
I don't know JDA, I'd say my 19" A Avedis (1512g) in particular is a perfect balance of crash and ride-ability. I use it as a LSR with my all A Avedis setup, but it's just so different in character from the K Con that they don't really mesh well. While I appreciate the 19" Kerope suggestion, I've owned an 18", 20" and 22", and while I found them beautiful and buttery to play in the store and on my own, they lost all definition and projection when playing with other musicians. To me, the K Cons have a lot of the beauty of the Keropes, plus a more defined stick sound, projection and volume threshold that makes them more versatile.
 

JDA

DFO Star
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
21,343
Reaction score
10,246
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
my 19" A Avedis
yes those are built as all purpose not crash-specific right?
what I mean is Zildjian "lacks" 18 and 19" rides in every and all K Series.

even totaling up all series the number is small/. shame on them. but it's their company..
in business to sell not cater to the fringe working guys out in the anonymous field..

there should be a
18" Renaissance Ride
18" K Con MTL
etc etc etc
even an 18" PJJ ride
18" K Con Medium Ride
18" K Con Light Ride
cymbals you can flat-stick/harmonic/crash/accent but are rides (like old Ks.)

but that's ok just makes Bosphorus (and others) thin rides stronger..
Z day of Reckoning is Coming :D

an aside, I once asked in a Poll on Cymbalholic had about 320 votes..(or 178)
"Would (Avedis) Zildjian ever return to (or consider) making a handmade Cymbal"

And Paul Francis voted.. Yes..
 
Last edited:

Rhythm Block

Active Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
39
Reaction score
37
I have a 22" mtl and a 20" medium and I can pretty confidently say I'd never use them side by side, for many of the reasons outlined above. I also have a 19" k con crash ride and to my ears it's much more of a crash than a ride, putting out far too much bright wash for regular riding. For a left side ride setup I'd definitely echo the responses suggesting a lighter 20", either k con or old A (I have a 1700ish gram 20" 60s A that takes very well to a sizzler) or maybe the 19" kerope for something nice and dark.
 

jaymandude

Very well Known Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
983
I’m personally more into the 2-20’s vibe. It’s easier to pair that then it is to find a great 18 or 19
 


Top