K Cons vs Paiste Trads

jtpaistegeist

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Personally, I like the Trads. For me, they are more articulate, have better use-able bells, and typically crash with more shimmer which I enjoy. Nothing wrong at all with K Cons, I have owned many over the years.
 

zenstat

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I must feel kindly towards the Paiste Trad rides because I have 3 of them, but no K Cons.

22" Medium Light 2840g
20" Medium Light 2162g
20" Medium 2156g

Yes this particular Medium Light weighs slightly more than my Medium. It seems like the weight ranges overlap a bit for those two models. I'm planning to work on a detailed morphological comparison to find out why they are almost the same weight but sound different. Some day. The Thin and Light weight ranges also seem to overlap.

The 22" Medium Light is an interesting beast. They seem to come in around 2800g and the Light around 2500g. On the commonly used "generic" weight scale 2500g and 2800g are actually two ends of the "Medium" weight class so either the "generic" weight scale we use doesn't apply to Paiste, or something else is going on with Trads. Based on some other research I'm doing I'd say it is a bit of both. The 22" Medium Light seems quite different from the 22" Light even though they are just 300g apart. I sometimes think about getting a 22" Light just to do a detailed comparison of those also. Then my wallet intervenes. :glasses8:

As an aside the same weight class versus naming thing comes up for me with the hats as well.

 
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RIDDIM

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I had a 22" Trad light ride that was way too washy for my tastes. Not suitable for low volume burn gigs, but fine for louder gigs where a lot of wash is not an issue. It resides elsewhere now. The crashes and hats are ok.

I still have a Trad Prototype 20" Ride. It sounds good but can get too washy very easily.

I like the K Cons that I've played. I didn't get the sense that they went out of control too easily and the yhad just enough definition. I find that Paiste's Masters/Twenty series blow the Trads out of the water, IMHO. I think Paiste really got the K thing down with the Masters/ Twenty series.
 
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jaymandude

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My experience is incomplete with the Trads, I had a few 7-10 years ago but my ears have changed. As a recent convert to Paiste, I have a Masters Dark 22, a Masters Thin 22, and a Modern Essentials 22. In K Con I have a 22 Rennaissance Prototype and a Dry Complex Bill Stewart thing, Mark II.

Random comments... It's hard for me to find a K Con that I like, I'm talking years of trying them, especially 20's ( I sold a 20 Bounce and Renaissance) Something about them seems off, like there's a frequency scooped out. Thankfully I have two old K 20's for that.

For a Swiss company that prides itself on consistency the Masters line sounds really good. I think the Bluebird is better sounding than the 20 Dark Ride. My regualar Masters 22 is around 2600 grams, same as my Rennaissance prototype. It would be nice to have a Masters dark at around 2400 and a little drier. But the 2600 weight is good for a lot of the Blues and Rock that I do so it works.

I think the traditionals feel diffferent cause they use the Signature alloy. I'd like to buy the 22 that's for sale here but I'm afraid it would be too washy for me. But I'd like to try it..
 

Old Drummer

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From what very little I know, I don't think they compare.

Half of this little is having briefly owned a K Con ride and listening to a few others. I liked my K Con ride, but sold it because it was worth way more than less expensive rides that seemed to me to be as good or thereabouts. However, I'm a real fan of the K Cons.

The other half of what I know is having listened to a jazz drummer the other night playing Paiste Traditionals. I actually didn't particularly like his cymbals and his left side 18" sounded to me like an old A, so I went up to him after the gig to ask what cymbals he was playing. (I didn't know when listening and was curious.) He told me Paiste Traditionals, beamed about how much he likes them, and assumed that I liked them too. I therefore went with his assumption and said "yeah great," but left wondering why the guy liked them. The 18" didn't seem to work for me, and the others were just so-so. I wouldn't have chosen those cymbals for a jazz gig, although I suppose he did manage with them.

K Cons would have been better in my opinion, and different. But whatever floats your boat, I guess.
 

Seb77

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Trads seem more complex with some examples bordering on weird. The sweeter ones can be similar to some K Cons, some of which sound somewhat bland to my ears. So in my mind there is an overlap with the good ones; a20“ mtl kcon and a 20“ ml trad can be similar.
 

jtpaistegeist

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My experience is incomplete with the Trads, I had a few 7-10 years ago but my ears have changed. As a recent convert to Paiste, I have a Masters Dark 22, a Masters Thin 22, and a Modern Essentials 22. In K Con I have a 22 Rennaissance Prototype and a Dry Complex Bill Stewart thing, Mark II.

Random comments... It's hard for me to find a K Con that I like, I'm talking years of trying them, especially 20's ( I sold a 20 Bounce and Renaissance) Something about them seems off, like there's a frequency scooped out. Thankfully I have two old K 20's for that.

For a Swiss company that prides itself on consistency the Masters line sounds really good. I think the Bluebird is better sounding than the 20 Dark Ride. My regualar Masters 22 is around 2600 grams, same as my Rennaissance prototype. It would be nice to have a Masters dark at around 2400 and a little drier. But the 2600 weight is good for a lot of the Blues and Rock that I do so it works.

I think the traditionals feel diffferent cause they use the Signature alloy. I'd like to buy the 22 that's for sale here but I'm afraid it would be too washy for me. But I'd like to try it..
I have the Masters Dark 20", 22".. and the Dark Crash Ride 22". The Dark Crash Ride 22" sounds like what you are looking for. To me, it seems like the same cymbal, only about ~350 grams lighter. The stick sound is lower pitched, and it crashes easily but is also quite controllable in fast tempo settings.
 

dustjacket

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My 20" Traditional thin crash is quite possibly the best crash I've ever heard.
 

tkillian

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Ive owned them all.
They are all great cymbals.
You get an occasional clunker
If you are a really good,professional drummer with a nice touch you can use any of the cymbals mentioned so far and make them work great.

Ive gone back and forth a million times.
Right now all my k cons are gone.
Im playing all Paiste except for china
22" scdr with 3 rivets
20" paiste trad light ride
20" paiste trad medium light coming in the mail
18" paiste trad crash
13" paiste trad hats
22" zildjian oriental china trash

If I find a 22" paiste china ...cheap ....ill snag it maybe.
Again. I thinks its what inspires you
And how you play them.
I have a dear close friend and he has a big heart but when he sits in on my gigs my cymbals dont sound good.
I sit down and they sound great.
A lot has to do with your touch in jazz.
This is just my opinion. Ymmv.
 

James Walker

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I thinks its what inspires you
And how you play them.

(snip)

A lot has to do with your touch in jazz.
Very true. Touch, and stick choice, and also familiarity with the cymbal. It has been three years since I last bought a new ("new to me") ride cymbal, and I think I've benefitted from having stayed with them for a long time.

(YMMV, and that last comment is not directed at anyone else or anyone else's buying/trading habits - just what I've noticed in my little corner of the world.)

As to the original question, I like both Trads and KCons, although I don't own any K's but do own a number of Trads. They are two different answers to the same question, IMO. There are times when I think I should sell off my Trads and replace them with something more Turkish in nature, but I can't bring myself to part with the Trads.
 

bongomania

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I have a dear close friend and he has a big heart but when he sits in on my gigs my cymbals dont sound good.
I sit down and they sound great..
A large part of that may be the difference in sound from the throne perspective vs a few feet away, or farther out in a room, with people, tables, and whatever other acoustic damping or reflecting going on.
 

tkillian

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I should have been clearer.
Ive had multiple friends sit in.
I sit in audience
Same gear
Different drummers
Different sounds

Larger point is TOUCH makes a huge difference.


Also . Years ago I talked to famous pianist Paul Bley. His daughter was at a summer camp I was the jazz band director at.
He came to watch the concert. He just got off the plane from a small tour in Europe with Charlie Haden and Al Foster.
We got talking about Al's SCDR.
Quoting Paul "You know the thing about that cymbal...a few guys sat in and it sounds horrible under their hands. Al knows how to get the sound out of that ride and make it work...its his touch"
 
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jaymandude

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I have the Masters Dark 20", 22".. and the Dark Crash Ride 22". The Dark Crash Ride 22" sounds like what you are looking for. To me, it seems like the same cymbal, only about ~350 grams lighter. The stick sound is lower pitched, and it crashes easily but is also quite controllable in fast tempo settings.
I don’t want lower pitch tho. I want thinner. And drier.

That’s the magic of Istanbul K’s.
 

tkillian

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My 20" paiste trad thin ride I got off reverb was obviously owned by a rock drummer who used it as a crash because the edges are dented the hell all over.
But!

It dries it out and makes it all nasty and dirty and great.

Ill take a pic and post.

Its almost like a cymbalsmith did it on purpose. Its like a 20" sound edge bottom hi hat :cool:
 

VinSparkle

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My experience is incomplete with the Trads, I had a few 7-10 years ago but my ears have changed. As a recent convert to Paiste, I have a Masters Dark 22, a Masters Thin 22, and a Modern Essentials 22. In K Con I have a 22 Rennaissance Prototype and a Dry Complex Bill Stewart thing, Mark II.

Random comments... It's hard for me to find a K Con that I like, I'm talking years of trying them, especially 20's ( I sold a 20 Bounce and Renaissance) Something about them seems off, like there's a frequency scooped out. Thankfully I have two old K 20's for that.

For a Swiss company that prides itself on consistency the Masters line sounds really good. I think the Bluebird is better sounding than the 20 Dark Ride. My regualar Masters 22 is around 2600 grams, same as my Rennaissance prototype. It would be nice to have a Masters dark at around 2400 and a little drier. But the 2600 weight is good for a lot of the Blues and Rock that I do so it works.

I think the traditionals feel diffferent cause they use the Signature alloy. I'd like to buy the 22 that's for sale here but I'm afraid it would be too washy for me. But I'd like to try it..
So what you’re saying is I shouldn’t trade my Bluebird for a KCon.
My experience is incomplete with the Trads, I had a few 7-10 years ago but my ears have changed. As a recent convert to Paiste, I have a Masters Dark 22, a Masters Thin 22, and a Modern Essentials 22. In K Con I have a 22 Rennaissance Prototype and a Dry Complex Bill Stewart thing, Mark II.

Random comments... It's hard for me to find a K Con that I like, I'm talking years of trying them, especially 20's ( I sold a 20 Bounce and Renaissance) Something about them seems off, like there's a frequency scooped out. Thankfully I have two old K 20's for that.

For a Swiss company that prides itself on consistency the Masters line sounds really good. I think the Bluebird is better sounding than the 20 Dark Ride. My regualar Masters 22 is around 2600 grams, same as my Rennaissance prototype. It would be nice to have a Masters dark at around 2400 and a little drier. But the 2600 weight is good for a lot of the Blues and Rock that I do so it works.

I think the traditionals feel diffferent cause they use the Signature alloy. I'd like to buy the 22 that's for sale here but I'm afraid it would be too washy for me. But I'd like to try it..
(That was weird)

If I’m using the Bluebird on my right side, what would you pair it with? I really like a high pitch on my right side, so looking for something lower on my left.

Full disclosure, I sold my Dry Complex stuff. And I’m a huge fan of Mehmet. Although I have several Agops, not really into them.
 

zenstat

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My 20" paiste trad thin ride I got off reverb was obviously owned by a rock drummer who used it as a crash because the edges are dented the hell all over.
But!

It dries it out and makes it all nasty and dirty and great.

Ill take a pic and post.

Its almost like a cymbalsmith did it on purpose. Its like a 20" sound edge bottom hi hat :cool:
When you mentioned a Thin purchased from Reverb I had to go see if this one


was still there. So you have a Thin model? I'd love to know the weight for the Wiki.
 

TrickRoll

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My experience is that the CONS [that I've played and heard] were clanky and harsh compared to the Trads. Nice cymbals but not suited to acoustic music. However, they seem to vary A LOT like all Zildjian products. So I believe there are some very sweet ones out there - it's just tough to find some to try out.

I love the Trads, but have struggled a little bit with the Rides. I have flats that work wonderfully for me, but the two 20's and 22 are nice, but not everything I'm looking for. I play/gig a lot on the 20" light ride; the 20 medium and 22 light don't get much time. I still prefer old K's as mine seem to have a better response for shoulder accents and they are easier to keep under the music. The Trads, while softer than most, still can project quite a bit.

The only other observation regarding the Trads is that the pitch difference between the various sizes is sometimes pretty tight. Ideally, I'd have a little more differentiation between the 15, 16, and 18 crashes and the rides.

I should try the Masters, per the suggestions above.
 

jaymandude

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So what you’re saying is I shouldn’t trade my Bluebird for a KCon.


(That was weird)

If I’m using the Bluebird on my right side, what would you pair it with? I really like a high pitch on my right side, so looking for something lower on my left.

Full disclosure, I sold my Dry Complex stuff. And I’m a huge fan of Mehmet. Although I have several Agops, not really into them.
Not sure. Staying with Paiste ? Maybe a 20 Masters Extra Thin ? I think those are great cymbals. Or a 20 Traditional in a lighter weight. I was going to recommend an Agop signature but your post indicates that brand might not be working for you.
 
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