K Cons vs Paiste Trads

Neal Pert

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
1,421
Reaction score
355
Location
Among the Coastal Elites
I think the worst thing you can do is to make a decision based on what you read in the drum forums about a brand or line of cymbals.

You have to do the work-- buy or borrow, use them for a while, see what you like. I've tried just about everything and my ears have settled on K Cons based on my touch, the kind of music I play, the way I grip the sticks, and a million other factors. And there are no laws that you can't mix and match.

And, too, I've sat up close with many famous drummers and didn't think much of their cymbal sounds even though I admired the hell out of their playing -- Ralph Peterson, Al Foster, Lewis Nash, Roy Haynes, and several others. I didn't like any of them up close. I LOVED Elvin's K Cons up close, Bill Stewart, Brian Blade, etc.
 

Neal Pert

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
1,421
Reaction score
355
Location
Among the Coastal Elites
I should add: Now that I know that I usually like K Cons, it's easier for me to listen to sound files and pick models. Why? I know what I like, I know how what I like sounds under mics in the various shops that do lots of video files (eg mycymbal), and I can usually correctly anticipate what else I'll like based on what I know of previous cymbals in the line and the effects of certain sizes or hammering patterns on the cymbals.
 

tkillian

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
1,610
Reaction score
260
When you mentioned a Thin purchased from Reverb I had to go see if this one


was still there. So you have a Thin model? I'd love to know the weight for the Wiki.
Actually it's a 20" light ride. My mistake

Photos coming soon/video etc..
 

drummerfriend

New Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Two very different cymbals in my opinion. Much closer comparing K Cons to Paiste Masters versus Trads.

I've never tried a K Con that I felt was worth it to drop the coin on (and I am a Zildjian fan). I did however spend the money on Paiste Trads (which I never thought I'd do). Also have Masters.

My opinions...
- K Cons have a louder volume threshold if that's important to you (or not).
- Paiste Trads have a 'softer' feel to them
- K Cons have a wider variety of sounds, etc... Renny, Bounce, MTL, etc...

As in Paiste tradition, Trads are more consistent one to another.

Paiste Masters are a totally different thing but are also awesome.

Let your tastes, ears and experience be your guide.
 

tkillian

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
1,610
Reaction score
260
Left = 20" Paiste Trad stencil logo LIGHT ride 1906

Right = 20" Medium Ride 2262

Vater Jazz Ride wood tip ( I used a promark Jazz Cafe Maple MJZ-7 for a second at first)


 

AtlantaDrumGuy

DFO Master
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,096
Reaction score
335
Location
Atlanta, GA
Two very different cymbals in my opinion. Much closer comparing K Cons to Paiste Masters versus Trads.

I've never tried a K Con that I felt was worth it to drop the coin on (and I am a Zildjian fan). I did however spend the money on Paiste Trads (which I never thought I'd do). Also have Masters.

My opinions...
- K Cons have a louder volume threshold if that's important to you (or not).
- Paiste Trads have a 'softer' feel to them
- K Cons have a wider variety of sounds, etc... Renny, Bounce, MTL, etc...

As in Paiste tradition, Trads are more consistent one to another.

Paiste Masters are a totally different thing but are also awesome.

Let your tastes, ears and experience be your guide.
Interesting. I was thinking Trads would be more cutting than Cons due to the signature alloy vs B20
 

tkillian

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
1,610
Reaction score
260
Interesting. I was thinking Trads would be more cutting than Cons due to the signature alloy vs B20
It has a lot to do with your stick and technique too.

Ive had mushy zildjians but also zildjian that sounded great in the room but stick got lost in a band.

And some "perfect" Zildjians.

The trads (imo) sit under the band but you still get a nice warm stick.

That 20" medium I posted above with be great with a couple or 3 rivets...light stick...nice Elvin or Joe Chaber's vibe.
 

zenstat

Senior Cymbal Nerd
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
4,077
Reaction score
836
Location
Auckland New Zealand
Left = 20" Paiste Trad stencil logo LIGHT ride 1906

Right = 20" Medium Ride 2262

Vater Jazz Ride wood tip ( I used a promark Jazz Cafe Maple MJZ-7 for a second at first)


That's an interesting contrast, especially the perceived pitch of the bell on the Light vs Medium Ride. The bell on the Medium Ride sounds lower pitched to me. Paiste describe the different models slightly differently, but they don't make a clear contrast with exactly what the sonic difference is between Medium Ride vs Medium Light Ride vs Light Ride. At least I'm not sure what they think it is from the words they use:

Thin Ride 20"
Weight: thin
Volume: soft to medium
Stick Sound: balanced, woody
Intensity: medium lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Dark, low, mellow, silvery. Wide range, fairly complex mix. Soft, woody feel, very responsive and controllable. Great for supporting ride patterns with fast fading crashes.

Light Ride 20" - 22"
Weight: thin
Volume: soft to medium
Stick Sound: balanced, woody
Intensity: medium lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Dark, low, slightly trashy, sparkling. Loose frequency range, complex mix. Soft, buttery feel, very responsive and controllable. Great for supporting ride patterns with quick crash accents.

Medium Light Ride 20" - 22"
Weight: medium thin
Volume: soft to medium
Stick Sound: balanced, sweet
Intensity: medium lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Medium dark, low, airy, breathy. Wide range, medium complex mix. Giving, subtle, medium soft feel. Controllable, flexible ride cymbal with mellow, dark, fast fading crash accents.

Medium Ride 20"
Weight: medium
Volume: soft to medium loud
Stick Sound: balanced, clear
Intensity: lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Dark, silvery, full. Wide range, with medium complex, dense mix. A very balanced, controllable ride sound with a sizzling ping. A dark ride cymbal with great versatility.

Medium Heavy Ride 20"
Weight: medium heavy
Volume: soft to medium loud
Stick Sound: strong, balanced
Intensity: medium lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Medium dark, warm, full. Medium wide range with fairly clean mix. Graceful, light feel, very controllable. Fairly strong woody ping. A dark ride cymbal with strength and projection.

Paiste seem to emphasize dark a bit more with the Medium than the Medium Light, but then dark figures in the Light Ride description again. And as for the subtle distinction between the Light and the Thin? :dontknow: I suspect that's why models in this series were cut back to just the best selling ones. Too many models to keep in production and in stock at retailers. Not that the models aren't distinct but that the distinction is too small to offset the costs of added inventory.

And since we're comparing Trads to K Cons (which remember I haven't played in person) I'm wondering if the level of variability between vs within different K Con models is similar to what we experience in the Trads. We have an objective way to measure weight, but no work has been done on objective comparisons of sound. If any work has been done measuring sound similarity and difference, news hasn't reached me yet.
 

tkillian

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
1,610
Reaction score
260
I just bought a 20" medium light off reverb! Getting mailed tomorrow so ill probably get it in a week. Its an etched model.

Report back soon with video of all three.
 
Last edited:

tkillian

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
1,610
Reaction score
260
That's an interesting contrast, especially the perceived pitch of the bell on the Light vs Medium Ride. The bell on the Medium Ride sounds lower pitched to me. Paiste describe the different models slightly differently, but they don't make a clear contrast with exactly what the sonic difference is between Medium Ride vs Medium Light Ride vs Light Ride. At least I'm not sure what they think it is from the words they use:

Thin Ride 20"
Weight: thin
Volume: soft to medium
Stick Sound: balanced, woody
Intensity: medium lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Dark, low, mellow, silvery. Wide range, fairly complex mix. Soft, woody feel, very responsive and controllable. Great for supporting ride patterns with fast fading crashes.

Light Ride 20" - 22"
Weight: thin
Volume: soft to medium
Stick Sound: balanced, woody
Intensity: medium lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Dark, low, slightly trashy, sparkling. Loose frequency range, complex mix. Soft, buttery feel, very responsive and controllable. Great for supporting ride patterns with quick crash accents.

Medium Light Ride 20" - 22"
Weight: medium thin
Volume: soft to medium
Stick Sound: balanced, sweet
Intensity: medium lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Medium dark, low, airy, breathy. Wide range, medium complex mix. Giving, subtle, medium soft feel. Controllable, flexible ride cymbal with mellow, dark, fast fading crash accents.

Medium Ride 20"
Weight: medium
Volume: soft to medium loud
Stick Sound: balanced, clear
Intensity: lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Dark, silvery, full. Wide range, with medium complex, dense mix. A very balanced, controllable ride sound with a sizzling ping. A dark ride cymbal with great versatility.

Medium Heavy Ride 20"
Weight: medium heavy
Volume: soft to medium loud
Stick Sound: strong, balanced
Intensity: medium lively
Sustain: medium
Bell Character: full, integrated
Sound Character: Medium dark, warm, full. Medium wide range with fairly clean mix. Graceful, light feel, very controllable. Fairly strong woody ping. A dark ride cymbal with strength and projection.

Paiste seem to emphasize dark a bit more with the Medium than the Medium Light, but then dark figures in the Light Ride description again. And as for the subtle distinction between the Light and the Thin? :dontknow: I suspect that's why models in this series were cut back to just the best selling ones. Too many models to keep in production and in stock at retailers. Not that the models aren't distinct but that the distinction is too small to offset the costs of added inventory.

And since we're comparing Trads to K Cons (which remember I haven't played in person) I'm wondering if the level of variability between vs within different K Con models is similar to what we experience in the Trads. We have an objective way to measure weight, but no work has been done on objective comparisons of sound. If any work has been done measuring sound similarity and difference, news hasn't reached me yet.
I owned a thin 20" ride.
I recorded a jazz CD with it as my main ride. Promark 7A sticks.

Piano, vibes,bass,drum and vocal .

It killed. But it was a soft gig. All in the same room.

Ill try to find a clip.

Definitely lighter and more delicate than the light ride.
 
Last edited:

tkillian

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
1,610
Reaction score
260
These? Could have kept and gigged until I die.
That stick/wash seperation...didn't FEEL good to me. Trads not as much seperation/air. I LIKE that.


Zildjian makes amazing K cons.

Either paiste traditional or k con...toss up. Its what you like and inspires you.

Your band mates could probably care less.
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

DFO Master
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,096
Reaction score
335
Location
Atlanta, GA
How is the bell on the Con Medium? Is it small and integrated, or big enough like an A. I’ve decided to steer clear of small bells. The K Light bell is big enough for me, as reference.
 

Latest posts



Top