K Istanbul characteristics

Esotericdrums

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Those of you with knowledge on old K’s what are some general characteristics between Old Stamps, New Stamps and Intermediate Stamps.

For someone looking for their first old K is there a particular stamp that is more highly sought after than others and for what reasons?

I’m contemplating a set of 14 hats or a 22”.
 

JDA

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For someone looking for their first old K is there a particular stamp that is more highly sought after than others and for what reasons?

I’m contemplating a set of 14 hats or a 22”.
Now you must watch and consider the setting you will be finding your self in. Unless it's totally all-original music.
New Stamps- 67-72-78 can cover the music of those years and perfectly beyond.

Like wise an old stamp I or II 49-50 although the most $ may cater to an old sound/setting and sound a bit odd playing more modern approached material.

So this is a Factor.

So the most expensive doesn't make them the best if you are going to play somewhat electric music. And vice versa a New Stamp will be close in 50s music/instrumentation/ but there.. an older era may be even better.

See what I mean?

I have 17 of them. For 20 years; well-gigged various settings. Multiple sets.
I mix eras or I lean to New Stamps or I plan to bring an old stamp on the left... it just depends on the setting.

There's a couple other things to know too.
one is how to get out of them once you are in them; and two, are they or are they not or were they ever drum set cymbals which I cover in my upcoming book.
kidding. no book. All in my head : ) I went thru it
 
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jb111

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Now you must watch and consider the setting you will be finding your self in. Unless it's totally all-original music.
New Stamps- 67-72-78 can cover the music of those years perfectly beyond perfectly.

like wise an old stamp I or II 49-50 altho the most $$$$ may cater to an old sound/setting and sound a bit odd playing more modern approached material.

So this is a Factor. They were a product of the time they were in To consider.

So the most expensive doesn't make them the best if you are going to play somewhat electric music. And vice versa a New Stamp will be very close in 1950s music/instrumentation/ but there.. an older era may be better.

See what I mean?

I have 17 of them. For 20 years; well-gigged various settings. Multiple sets.
I mix eras or I lean to New Stamps or I plan to bring an old stamp on the left... it just depends on the setting.

There's a couple other things to know too.
one is how to get out of them once you are in them; and two, are they or are they not or were they ever drum set cymbals which I cover in my upcoming book.
kidding. no book. All in my head : ) I went thru it
Yes to all this. Context is key. For cymbals of all eras!
 

JDA

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20" New Stamp 2009g***
20" Intermediate 1987g****
22" New Stamp 2877g*****

18" Type IV 1521g~~
18" New Stamp 1477g~
18" Intermediate 1516g
18" New Stamp 1468g

16" type IV 1271g~~~
16" New Stamp 1275g~~~~
16" Intermediate 1043g

14" New Stamp 773g**
14" New Stamp 979g**
14" Type III 797g*
14" New Stamp 1050g
Old K Con 14" 1200g*

that's my inventory

14" New Stamp
13" Old K Con paperthin

that's it
owned sold and gone away: 22" New Stamp (1st one ever bought ebay $500) plain vanilla, 22" Intermediate stamp 2278g (too low to keep maybe coulda but no) , 15" Type III, 15" New Stamp, (didn't like 15s) 14" Intermediate 14" new stamp, (didn't like the combo)
~
*- primo hi hat freedom pairing
**- primo classic rock /allman bros/Harrison hat pairing
***- all-around any day any gig ride
****- stone-cold jazz time knocker/keeper
*****- big daddy king of any road humble until activated then smoke lightning fire and brimstone
~- any and every modern gig left side
~~ deep jazz left side not rock
~~~ baby doll left side to a 22
~~~~ another baby doll crash semi ride. Guy wrote a tear stained letter attached in the box when he sold it to me on ebay. He was right.

and on and on..
@Esotericdrums
@RIDDIM
@ Seb77
 
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Tama CW

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Only thing I can possibly add to JDA's detailed book above is to be much more concerned about the sound of your ride cymbal.
The hats don't make as much a difference other than the weighting you want for the bulk of music you will play.
I nice pairing of 14" intermediate or new stamp hats (800-950 / 900-1150) should get almost any job done.
I've tested some primo Type 3 hats. And while they were great, they won't contribute as much to your sound as the ride and ride/crash.
You can score a nice pair of IS or NS 14" hats for $400-$500. The 50's hats can run you $600-$950 unless you settle for some minor bell cracks, bites, and such.
 

JDA

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Sometimes in old K you have to let the ride take "You" where it wants to go "follow it " to "discover it" then a Trust once that occurs enough times is built up. Expect the unexpected then see how it fits in a band. You can't be too concerned beforehand. It sometimes it takes "you" where "it" wants to go. Much stronger than most any modern cymbal is the pull. Really nothing exactly as strong like them. Not to the extent how organically Musical they are... But they will take "you" places you didn't know existed..that's why they'll always be worth the trip.
"like I said earlier ...a handmade zildjian ...came around this earth once" AZ can get close and Bos and Isti have a nice dish of it. but the old K is Full-on full- Boat- musically like no other. Symphonic levels. or beyond that. On a level unlike other cymbals. Like I said tho you need to know how to get into them (luck mostly) but just as important there comes a time to withdraw. From the opiate. : D and join back into the human race/ polite society/ yes. I was an old K Junkie. not ashamed to admit it. But I'm clean I tell ya. Ya gotta believe me.. (fact of the matter- Bands are rarely good enough for them) I'm clean I tell I'm clean! Doctor!

 
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Seb77

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Old Stamps (I, II, III, IV)- Butterfly breath (airy)
Intermediate 59-66- Dry Dark Ice. middle frequency hole.
New Stamps 67-72-78- warm fluffy mushrooms.
Shouldn‘t something like Tony‘s 22 have been an Intermediate stamp one? Plenty of midrange.
 

JDA

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Shouldn‘t something like Tony‘s 22 have been an Intermediate stamp one? Plenty of midrange.
maybe you might think it did..(have plenty of midrange)
go to the intermediates I've owned. The 22 diameter Intermediate (I had) was overtaken by lows. In 20s, 18s, - less diameter- mid hole more obvious.
If Tony's 22 was an Intermediate well could be but not really ever confirmed
I do tho suspect the 14" hi hats (water babies intro leads me to that conclusion) were Intermediates


there were no mids to hold the 22" Intermediate 2279g I had together it was all lows. The lows dominated .
Mids absent.
Because of two factors the Intermediate build possess's :

"Flat profile in the middle- body (where the lows are)
and high arch full cup (where the highs come from)" (cup being quite unlike other K eras

not enough factors to give mids
Highs-lows (no mids) all of them

It was all "Sticky" body surface Lows and then there was the Bell. No middle meat.

But it's the characteristic of the Intermediate build era.. "Dry dark Ice."
The New Stamp build brought with it tons of mids hence the "warm fluffy mushrooms"
The Old Stamps have a dominant ethereal atmospheric to them (from the low wide cup and primitive/artistic lathing) the build ; hence the "butterfly breath"

The Builds were consistent thru & within an Era.
Amazingly so. Shape. Lathe. Cup.
 
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JDA

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here's a New Stamp performance all new stamp. warm Balanced modern. "warm fluffy mushroom (meat -in-the-middle)" (up close) in-person
here everything there is a New Stamp ...from a distance: that's exactly how they sound in-person. they are not Intermediate sound. They are not old stamp sound. That's the New Stamp K. That era evolution. Some would say the least exotic but that's Ok. More like a modern 80s Istanbul (with a superior zildjian bell (cup, bridge) which is true



last era
 
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JDA

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I want to talk about this Cymbal. An Intermediate. Can you hear the " dark Dry Ice" ? the middle hole?



I believe this is it In Context. the owner can correct me if I'm wrong. He has had it over in the marketplace on offer for sale .
I believe it's in this clip -might be mistaken but Guessing. "Dark Dry Ice" Joe Intermediate. fantastic Cymbal.


that's an Intermediate on steroids a Really fine specimen a 1 out of 10 rare find among Intermediates example
not a lot of mid frequency vibrations in that; Lows, Highs.. pure Intermediate build. super sweet 22" weight spot
~

some other Intermediate difference within a build era a diameter can make sound examples
see the high arch cup typical of the era. these are what's on ebay and reverb a few times a year
whether found in Spain or Spokane they're the same


no mid-hum. just strong Lows and Highs. gives strong stick. isolated stick. not surrounded by mid mudding
 
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JDA

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the "butterfly breath" of the Old Stamp


for expediency I go first to YAMAMOTO

hear the Air ....not frost this time era .. there's a difference
The "butterfly breath" is present even in a 14" and 16" .. quite a feeling in -person.
to be continued..

smooth


"butterfly breath"
ethereal airy no edgy atmospheric clear
cloud-like ..heavenly maybe? <-- that's a whole nother subject
~
That's the Three eras with some subdivision within the Old Stamp.
The IV last of the old stamps was in shape cup was similar to the (ahem "heavenly") III but - lathe style gave it a very stiff monotone almost feel and sound. and some I types had a character hang over from the prior old K Constantinople. Primitive pan skillet. But that's the Old Stamp range. It had... a range 1-4

our member Jmoll


member matthias "butterfly breath" airy atmospheric (not frost) clearer than frost

 
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JDA

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here's the Intermediate 22" 2279g I had.


the Lows dominated. the highs couldn't lift it as typical no mids to lift it.
Hence it was cool- but between it - and my 2877g New Stamp 22"- it got the hall pass to move on to a new owner and you see him here with it- Jeff Blue

another view of it:

 
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JDA

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Angel breath might modify Butterfly Breath


Type II.. closer to an old K Constantinople than to a New Stamp.
Almost one foot or a few toes still in the old K Con..developing

```````````````````````

Old K Con (see where the discontinued Avedis K Hi Bell series cup design got from)


let's try a whole set of old K Cons. Only Yamamoto would do
possibly the wildest K Zildjian vintage video ever in the history of www.
 
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Esotericdrums

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JDA, thanks for all the advice and examples! I know it took a lot of time to put all this together and I greatly appreciate it!

stepping into the world of old Ks is intimidating trying to pin down exactly what era to go for. Especially with the price tag on a lot of these
 

Jonnymac

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I want to talk about this Cymbal. An Intermediate. Can you hear the " dark Dry Ice" ? the middle hole?



I believe this is it In Context. the owner can correct me if I'm wrong. He has had it over in the marketplace on offer for sale .
I believe it's in this clip -might be mistaken but Guessing. "Dark Dry Ice" Joe Intermediate. fantastic Cymbal.


that's an Intermediate on steroids a Really fine specimen a 1 out of 10 rare find among Intermediates example
not a lot of mid frequency vibrations in that; Lows, Highs.. pure Intermediate build. super sweet 22" weight spot
~

some other Intermediate difference within a build era a diameter can make sound examples
see the high arch cup typical of the era. these are what's on ebay and reverb a few times a year
whether found in Spain or Spokane they're the same


no mid-hum. just strong Lows and Highs. gives strong stick. isolated stick. not surrounded by mid mudding
that first cymbal is so good
 

Sinclair

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New Stamps 67-72-78- warm fluffy mushrooms.
Yeah... best shrooms are warm the and fluffy kind. All the links to old
stamps and I don't see mine. What gives joe?

Another dominant characteristic of the Old Stamps is they're the most expensive sought after rides in the world.
 

JDA

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All the links to old
stamps and I don't see mine. What gives joe?
gonna take the 5th
b) i was just getting to it
c) didn't show in my news feed
4) was hidden under a stack of old newspapers
5) twitter banned it
6) i only have two hands
f) I'm only one woman
g) I had a car appointment that day
 
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