K Istanbul characteristics

marc3k

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Sometimes I wonder why there are so many old K's with rivets - if they sound so great, why would you add rivets?!
 

JDA

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there's no mo many than others say old A's..
altho having rivets is not necessarily a bad covering up kind of thing Ask Elvin and 8 million other famous and not famous drummers
I don't see often what you're saying.
Nice try tho : D
factor in too; Rivet's were a part of the 'age' when they were around; when they roamed the earth.
 

osw000

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there's no mo many than others say old A's..
altho having rivets is not necessarily a bad covering up kind of thing Ask Elvin and 8 million other famous and not famous drummers
I don't see often what you're saying.
Nice try tho : D
factor in too; Rivet's were a part of the 'age' when they were around; when they roamed the earth.
Now that you mention Elvin, maybe I'm wrong, but I reckon his crash/bash sound in the intermediate stamp examples. (classic Quartet era). It makes sense that this is due to the absence of mids. This could be why the crash sounds crystal clean, kind of frosted, which I like a lot. At the same time his bell sound is high pitched and cutting. This balance I think is not common on current dark cymbals, on those that I had the chance to test, either you get weird overtones with a very low pitched crash sound and most of the time a dull bell. When the bell is pingy everything else is pingy as well.
Any clue what weights could be Elvin playing on his 20's" aprox?
 

JDA

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Any clue what weights could be Elvin playing on his 20's" aprox?
: ) a few of his later New Stamp 20s were auctioned at Gurnseys and the weights I remember them being in the area of 1850- 1870- 1890
from a few Holics that actually purchased them (! true
some remnants of the 2005 event still online:

1934g in a 20 and you're there- in feel- and timbre- in say in a Traditional Thin Ride Bosphorus 20" (I own) must be model thin ride.
(see examples at cymbalhouse.com Kentucky) you are right 'next to it..and happy as a clam.
Bear in mind he used presplit Istanbuls after old K folded (in 78) for 15 years so (from about 81-4) it's ok to go outside the original brand.
Then he went back "with Zildjian" (1996-7) to his old Ks 20's new stamps Both right sides with rivets can hear them in the 2000's on Michael Brecker's Time Is Of The Essence - 3 tracks . Also on Trio Fascination with Joe Lovano. Those are the New Stamp 20s. Two must have later last? EJ Cd's.
What eras he used (Gretsch endorsed) in the late 50s thru 60s. The earlyiest 70s. Probably used every era III's, IV's, Intermediates;
 
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Esotericdrums

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Is there any information out there about the K Zildjians that predated the Old K Constantinoples? With Zildjian dating back to 1623 it seems like there would be at least a few ancient cymbals still floating around in a museum or the Zildjian vault from those early eras.

1623 to the 1907 Stamp 0 K Constantinople

284 years of Zildjian manufacturing with little to no history?

I have seen pictures of the old Constantinoples that I believe the Boston Orchestra had in their possession. I believe those date to the late 1800s and are the oldest known set of Zildjians?

But you would think some other old relics would be around somewhere or at least cataloged.
 
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JDA

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JDA

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Drumaholic at VDF
````````````````````````````````





Bill Hartrick aka Drumaholic






Bill's pic's





all (and theres more)
from the One Thread at VDF





Thread should be (double) archived somewhere over there (doubled)



Opiates. Are addictive see. Turkish ones especially.

 
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JDA

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OS old stamp: butterfly breath (hear the atmospheric air)
NS new stamp: warm mushrooms (hear the body meat of the shroom)

on display:


consistent per era sound(s)
per era

if he would have had Intermediate (dry, dark, ice) hi hats,
all three sound era of K would have been on display.
 
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Seb77

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Now that you mention Elvin, maybe I'm wrong, but I reckon his crash/bash sound in the intermediate stamp examples. (classic Quartet era). It makes sense that this is due to the absence of mids. This could be why the crash sounds crystal clean, kind of frosted, which I like a lot. At the same time his bell sound is high pitched and cutting. This balance I think is not common on current dark cymbals, on those that I had the chance to test, either you get weird overtones with a very low pitched crash sound and most of the time a dull bell. When the bell is pingy everything else is pingy as well.
Any clue what weights could be Elvin playing on his 20's" aprox?
I don't have much experience playing old Ks. I played some (for example from the vault of some German conservatory) that were incredibly complex sounding, but nothing like what Elvin preferred.
I have been into Elvin-type crash rides, also via other guys such as Billy Hart who I think also has a great crash ride sound, follwing his model and going after those sounds with modern cymbals. What I found is that bow and bell shouldn't be too high, otherwise you get too much mids (the bow) and high-end (the bell). Curves (bow or bell) increase higher partials. A K Pre-Aged Light ride or Jazz ride (from the 90s) is like that. Something like a Bos or Mehmet Trad. Original Light ride can have a nice balance, as well as some As or a lighter K Custom Dark ride, all with a similar shape: medium size bell, medium to low bow. The bell shouldn't be too low (as in the Istanbul mel 21 and 20), that kind of bell lacks projection (which carries over into the ride and crash sounds).
 

JDA

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The Bosphorus similar to Elvins 20s would be what they call the Traditional Thin Ride model.
Look for it. 20". when out and about..
I own two old K 20s. two eras. one NS ..one Int... 2009g and 1987g (two different worlds)

my Bos Thin Ride 20 Trad. factory marked 1950g when reweighed: 1934g. pictured.

ElvinB 001.JPG ElvinB 002.JPG ElvinB 003.JPG ElvinB 004.JPG ElvinB 005.JPG
 
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drummer5359

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Thank you for all of the info.

I have a 19" Istanbul K that I've owned since 1984. Up until today I never had any idea what stamp it was or when it was made. Today I decided to do some actual research. It seems to be an old stamp IIa.



In the 80s I used it for softer trio gigs that I played. I had a 20" 1960s A that got the nod when things got louder. In the 1990s to the early 2000s I was in an oldies band. I used this cymbal for every gig during those years.

My impressions of this cymbal are that it really takes a great touch to get anything out of it. Playing it steadily for years was like a master's class that doesn't end. Moving my stick an inch up or down very slightly varied the sound a great deal. I also have to say that the bell sound is stunning.

I still play it from time to time, but it doesn't get as much stand time as it once did. The mounting hole is small, I need to use old stands to use it. I also find that since I have not played it constantly like I used to, I'm not as intimate with the spots that make it sing.
 
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JDA

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I have a 19" Istanbul K that I've owned since 1984. Up until today I never had any idea what stamp it was or when it was made. Today I decided to do some actual research. It seems to be an old stamp IIa.
do me a favor..measure it across the back.

just to see.

Playing it steadily for years was like a master's class that doesn't end.
Could be the beauty of never tiring of it.
Never getting to bottom of it. Some would --and do-- pay a fortune for that.
Saves buying other cymbals.

~~
Old Ks in the movies:

 
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drummer5359

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do me a favor..measure it across the back.

just to see.


Could be the beauty of never tiring of it.
Never getting to bottom of it. Some would --and do-- pay a fortune for that.
Saves buying other cymbals.

~~
Old Ks in the movies:


19 5/8" across the back. I used to call it a 20", I measured it a few years back and realized that it wasn't quite 20" across. I had forgotten the dimensions.
 

JDA

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19 5/8" across the back.
Yea It'd be called a 20 in the resell world..(even more $)
Some say they were metric or they got close enough (etc)
only a few instance were they were trimmed to 19 on the nose) (that's Ok..

I'd call it a 20 and love to see a picture when if you can. You got 2 grand sitting there +/-
 
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Esotericdrums

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You guys are lucky fellas to have been able to pick some of these old Ks up before they started costing an arm and a leg.

They are amazing cymbals but damn they get outrageously pricey nowadays

Especially an old stamp like that!
 

JDA

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You guys are lucky fellas to have been able to pick some of these old Ks up before they started costing an arm and a leg.

They are amazing cymbals but damn they get outrageously pricey nowadays

Especially an old stamp like that!
there are some 20s that still can be found and bought for 8xx
never give up... when there's a best offer... on an Asking price
(sellers need money too!) (they all can't hold out for top dollar forever)
usually stealable are 20" new stamps and intermediates ..it can be done
single 14s for 2xx also sometimes so you can build a hat set
with 1 hat pair and 1 ride you're almost at full set
add a 16 for high 2xx and you're almost in
18s and 22s are tuff again not impossible; remembering Sellers need cash too. they don't all want to hang on to them (Or it wouldn't be for sale ) forever..
It appears Tougher yes and there's fewer to pick from and some are chipped.. still functional..
 
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Tama CW

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Is that a 6" bell on Drummer5359's 2a? It looks huge. Nice looking cymbal. If you ever get a chance - try to get a weight on it.
 


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