Keyhole in heavy ride

[Luigithedrummer]

Back in the mid 90s I played a three night gig. When I packed up I found that the plastic Tama wing nut/sleeve had slipped up just a fraction but that had allowed the cymbal to make contact with the metal of the stand and left a keyhole. The cymbal is a 24” Zildjian K Heavy Ride. Still a beautiful ride with a loud bell and a wide range of tones and wash depending on where you play on it. My question is how much does that keyhole affect the value? I’m in the process of moving and it’s in storage so I can’t take a photo.

 

[squidart]

A negligible amount for those of us who don't care about a slight keyhole. Some are fussy. I can't imagine 3 nights left anything major but hard to say without a pic.

 

[Luigithedrummer]

A negligible amount for those of us who don't care about a slight keyhole. Some are fussy. I can't imagine 3 nights left anything major but hard to say without a pic.

Thanks for the reply. I’ll update this when I can and see what you think.

 

[Tama CW]

Between a knowledgeable buyer and seller pair who both realize that keyholes lower the market price........some general guidance.

1 mm key hole or less 0 to - 5%
2 mm key hole - 10%
3 mm key hole -15 to -20%
4-5 mm key hole -25 to -30%

These + mm measurements are in addition to the normal 1/2" bell hole (12.2 mm).
If you don't have 2 people who view key holes the same way then all bets are off.

i remember on an 18" trans stamp with a 1 inch (25.4 mm) key hole and a couple tiny bell hole cracks.....took about a 40-50% deduction on that vs. normal value. But I bought it at about the same cost too. Played that cymbal for a year
just fine with none of the cracks getting worse (see photo). For a particularly valuable $300-$400 cymbal I'd expect at least a $25 deduction if the key hole is very obvious.

The best way to ask yourself on how to value a key hole.......first value the cymbal as if it had no key hole. Then come up with a number you would pay a "wizard" to magically make the key hole disappear. That's your deduction.

.

 

[Franklin Nigel Stein]

Back in the mid 90s I played a three night gig. When I packed up I found that the plastic Tama wing nut/sleeve had slipped up just a fraction but that had allowed the cymbal to make contact with the metal of the stand and left a keyhole. The cymbal is a 24” Zildjian K Heavy Ride. Still a beautiful ride with a loud bell and a wide range of tones and wash depending on where you play on it. My question is how much does that keyhole affect the value? I’m in the process of moving and it’s in storage so I can’t take a photo.

I would just add one more thing to the discussion, don’t be that guy who thinks it’s worth more if he owns it than if somebody else does. A keyhole isn’t the end of the world but you’ll take a small hit. No biggie.

Frank N Stein

 

[Old Drummer]

I guess I look at this in the reverse and ask how much more an old cymbal is worth without a keyhole. The price calculations are probably the same, but I half expect a keyhole in an older cymbal. If it's small, I don't consider it at all.

Come to think of it, my 60s A has a slight keyhole. Would I have paid more for it had it not had the keyhole? You know, probably not. A slight keyhole just doesn't concern me.

Of course, this is an A, not a K, and I bought the cymbal to play it, not as an investment. Had I been spending a ton for an investment quality K, a slight keyhole would have been a small consideration.

Now, a large keyhole on any cymbal is another story altogether. But price isn't a factor for me when there's a large keyhole because I just won't buy a cymbal with one. Large keyholes tell me that I'm in the realm of a cymbal smith, and that's not a place I want to be. I suppose that if the price were right, I'd risk buying a cymbal with a large keyhole, but that's like buying a cymbal with a crack. The price would have to be very low and I'd have to want that cymbal.

Tama CW is probably right to say 5% for a slight keyhole. It's not nothing, but it's not a big deal either.

 

[JDA]

heavier -in larger cymbals from the old days of 'stands",,,is going to be found with keyhole
Lighter don't have the same weight to pull down and grind and are usually found with lesser keyhole

 

[Luigithedrummer]

Between a knowledgeable buyer and seller pair who both realize that keyholes lower the market price........some general guidance.

1 mm key hole or less 0 to - 5%
2 mm key hole - 10%
3 mm key hole -15 to -20%
4-5 mm key hole -25 to -30%

These + mm measurements are in addition to the normal 1/2" bell hole (12.2 mm).
If you don't have 2 people who view key holes the same way then all bets are off.

i remember on an 18" trans stamp with a 1 inch (25.4 mm) key hole and a couple tiny bell hole cracks.....took about a 40-50% deduction on that vs. normal value. But I bought it at about the same cost too. Played that cymbal for a year
just fine with none of the cracks getting worse (see photo). For a particularly valuable $300-$400 cymbal I'd expect at least a $25 deduction if the key hole is very obvious.

The best way to ask yourself on how to value a key hole.......first value the cymbal as if it had no key hole. Then come up with a number you would pay a "wizard" to magically make the key hole disappear. That's your deduction.

. View attachment 507485

Between a knowledgeable buyer and seller pair who both realize that keyholes lower the market price........some general guidance.

1 mm key hole or less 0 to - 5%
2 mm key hole - 10%
3 mm key hole -15 to -20%
4-5 mm key hole -25 to -30%

These + mm measurements are in addition to the normal 1/2" bell hole (12.2 mm).
If you don't have 2 people who view key holes the same way then all bets are off.

i remember on an 18" trans stamp with a 1 inch (25.4 mm) key hole and a couple tiny bell hole cracks.....took about a 40-50% deduction on that vs. normal value. But I bought it at about the same cost too. Played that cymbal for a year
just fine with none of the cracks getting worse (see photo). For a particularly valuable $300-$400 cymbal I'd expect at least a $25 deduction if the key hole is very obvious.

The best way to ask yourself on how to value a key hole.......first value the cymbal as if it had no key hole. Then come up with a number you would pay a "wizard" to magically make the key hole disappear. That's your deduction.

. View attachment 507485

That photo shows a lot bigger keyhole than I’m talking about. I appreciate your comments as well as comments from other members.

 

[JDA]

Caution Flat Rides Not Immune..: D...

A. Zildjian 22" Small Stamp Ride Cymbal 1957 - 1960 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

 

[Tama CW]

That photo shows a lot bigger keyhole than I’m talking about. I appreciate your comments as well as comments from other members.

I know. Which I is why I included 0-2 mm key hole estimates to account for what yours probably is. I just included a massive key-holer where the cymbal still retained about half its value. They don't become worthless or even close to it with key holes, bell hole cracks, and other "debatable" flaws. JDA's 22 flat ride link above is in that same league. Not likely that seller gets $140 + shipping for the flat ride. A real clean 70's flat ride like that is "worth" $165-$195 with NO issues. I sold one of those last year on Reverb for $135 (yet $183 to buyer delivered....and netted $121 for it (lol) after everyone else got their cut.......that's the "dirty little secret" of actually selling on major "retail" sites. I netted 66% of the all-in "retail" buy price. Welcome to the big leagues Mr. Hobbs. Buyer paid a pretty strong price for it too "all-in." The missing 33% went to UPS, REVERB, PayPal, and the CA dept of revenue (wink). And I grudgingly went to Reverb after being unable to sell it locally on CL for around $120-$130.