Lifts for 20's - What say you?

6topher

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Unnecessary in my opinion. I play 20's almost exclusively.

I have an 18/12/14 bop i gig occasionally with no riser, i just drop the beater a bit and its fine. But. I have been considering 1 of these bass plates a friend gave me on the 18. Its pretty minimal, but i think worth a listen.

 

peter

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Many saying a lift for 20's unnecessary... but even when lifted with the Artie Dixson (now Evans), the beater still does not quite strike dead-center.

I don't think the benefit is due to uncoupling the drum from the floor - Rather, it seems to be a more defined and punchy attack from the beater hitting the batter head closer to dead-center.

The Dixson lift raises a 20" about an additional 1.5" off the ground at the batter side, so a 20" sits just lower than a 22" un-lifted. Not much help much on 18's, but pretty ideal for 20's.

The slight amount of lift also means you usually don't have to cut a notch in the bass drum hoop, like you do with the Gibraltar lift (or like some Yamaha bass drum hoops are made) as others have noted.

With the Dixson, there is usually just enough space between the bottom of the footboard to not hit the inside of the bass drum hoop. Although if the chain/strap fastener on the underside of footboard is bulky this can be a problem. The other thing to watch out for is bulkier hoop clamps on BD pedals, especially when they have a fine-tune adjustment screw on top of the hoop clamp tongue. Yamaha and Pearl bass drum pedals have all been compatible with the Dixson lift for me. I will probably get another Yamaha FP-9500C (already have the longer footboard FP-8500C, which I love).
 
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Steech

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I have always played 20s and tried a kit with a 22 about a year ago. It put the rack toms up way too high for me and I had to adjust everything else as well - hihats, throne, floor toms, etc, and it did not feel right. And in the end I didn’t think the 22 sounded or played any better than my trusty 20s. Adding a riser to my 20 would take everything back up close to where the 22 was. So, ignoring any potential improvements to sound, the ergonomic downsides are just not worth it for me.
 
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peter

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Another thing I found that is NOT 20" bass drum friendly are Sonor German-made (600 Series and Giant Step) bass drum pedals.

For some reason, Sonor needed to make the level of the cam shaft (horizontal bar that beater holder attaches to) over a full 1" taller than most other pedals, which offsets the beater even further. Between that, and their non-telescoping bass drum spurs which limit how high you can elevate smaller bass drums (kind of necessary, when using a lift lol) it's very frustrating. Especially because I otherwise actually love the feel, build quality, and simple aesthetic of Sonor's pedals and hardware overall.
 

multijd

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Many saying a lift for 20's unnecessary... but even when lifted with the Artie Dixson (now Evans), the beater still does not quite strike dead-center. Even if I compensate by lowering the beater excessively low.

I don't think the benefit is due to uncoupling the drum from the floor - Rather, it seems to be a more defined and punchy attack from the beater hitting the batter head closer to dead-center.

The Dixson lift raises a 20" about an additional 1.5" off the ground at the batter side, so a 20" sits just lower than a 22" un-lifted. Not much help much on 18's, but pretty ideal for 20's.

The slight amount of lift also means you usually don't have to cut a notch in the bass drum hoop, like you do with the Gibraltar lift (or like some Yamaha bass drum hoops are made) as others have noted.

With the Dixson, there is usually just enough space between the bottom of the footboard to not hit the inside of the bass drum hoop. Although if the bracket that fastens the chain/strap to the bottom of the footboard is bulky this can be a problem. I was recently interested in the Ludwig "Speed Flyer", but it looks like the chain attachment under the footboard is kind of bulky/tall and won't work for me.

The other thing to watch out for is bulkier hoop clamps on BD pedals, especially when they have a fine-tune adjustment screw on top of the hoop clamp tongue. Yamaha and Pearl bass drum pedals have all been compatible with the Dixson lift for me. I will probably get another Yamaha FP-9500C (already have the longer footboard FP-8500C, which I love).
Yes there is that question about hitting dead center again. Maybe not the optimal place to strike a drum? That’s what many of us believe. But it is all personal preference. Where do you like the sound?
 

peter

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I have always played 20s and tried a kit with a 22 about a year ago. It put the rack toms up way too high for me and I had to adjust everything else as well - hihats, throne, floor toms, etc, and it did not feel right. And in the end I didn’t think the 22 sounded or played any better than my trusty 20s. Adding a riser to my 20 would take everything back up close to what the 22 was. So, ignoring any potential improvements to sound, the ergonomic downsides are just not worth it for me.
Yes, this is important to consider (and why it's important to order your SQ2 toms at 7" depth) ;)
 

peter

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A VERY good point, my fellow SQ2 fanatic :)
You know if they just made 7" depth toms standard, like Tama used to, we wouldn't have to go spending $5K on custom made drum kits haha.

Well, that and offered 15" floor toms.

And telescoping bass drum spurs.
 

peter

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Hey All,

I've stated in the past I'm not a fan of small bass drums. That being said, I now own two 20's that go with two of my Yamaha shell packs. My Club Custom and my AHM's.

Last night, I played for the first time, my CC 20's and damn if the thing sounded and felt great! I still hate how puny they look but really, it sounded great! I know Gadd now prefers 20's but uses the Yamaha lift. He's playing a local show (at Yoshi's) in February and will be using my local drum shop's owner, Dubs Drum basement Darren's AHM kit with a 20 and specially asked for a lift.

So, what say you all who've used one? Oh, here's a pic of by CC kit at last nights gig.

View attachment 538536
Nice rig.
If that's the height you usually like to have your 10" & 12" toms at, you definitely have a good amount of space to bring the bass drum up a bit using the Artie Dixson/Evans lifter (highly recommended).
 

CherryClassic

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I played a backline Yamaha 18" BD on a lift. As mentioned in the Yamaha link above, there was a largish cut-out, or notch, in the bass drum hoop, to get the beater closer to the head.

You guys using lifts, doesn't it put the pedal farther away from the head, so the beater has to travel further? Thats why the Yamaha has the cut-out; otherwise the beater rod would hit the rim.

Sound wise, it was not right for the acoustic jazz I was playing; too "pointed" and dry and punchy. A more "modern" sound than the traditional set-up.

I could see that for Dan and the styles he plays it would be good for him, but the sound didn't work for me on that gig.
Just a thought about the sound. Tuning and type of head can make a big difference. My drum has Fiderskyn PS3's on both sides and tuned for tone. An 18" bass can sound like a bigger bass drum when tuned properly. If I need the punch, I can play the pedal to bring that out.

sherm
 

DanRH

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BTW, Gadd’s using my buddy’s AHM kit with a 20 and a Gibraltar lift at the Yoshi’s gig in February.
 

ThomasL

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The Dixson lift raises a 20" about an additional 1.5" off the ground at the batter side, so a 20" sits just lower than a 22" un-lifted. Not much help much on 18's, but pretty ideal for 20's.
The center of a 20" is 1" lower than that of a 22", so the 20" on the lift will have its center slightly higher.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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BTW, Gadd’s using my buddy’s AHM kit with a 20 and a Gibraltar lift at the Yoshi’s gig in February.
Dan,

PM me your address and I will send you the Gibraltar lift.....Happy New Year's to you and the Mrs!
 

Steech

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You know if they just made 7" depth toms standard, like Tama used to, we wouldn't have to go spending $5K on custom made drum kits haha.

Well, that and offered 15" floor toms.

And telescoping bass drum spurs.
I think you can get SQ2 floor toms in 15”
 
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Steve Gadd swears by it.

1642543630496.png


So there is that.

I love it on anything 16” and 18”.

I never had problems with the hoop and the beater.

Not with the Dixson on the PHX 18”, nor on the Gibraltar riser that is on my SC at the moment.

1C0F5438-1BD4-4CA1-A575-9132A20B008E.jpeg
 

Seb77

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I have been considering 1 of these bass plates a friend gave me on the 18. Its pretty minimal, but i think worth a listen.

This looks promising. Lateral adjustabiity is great, I put a wide plate like this on a wooden homemade riser: You can have a dead-center sound but also an off-center one the way you get with an 18" on the floor, without having to change beater length.
 


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