Limb priority …

[Mapex Always]

Played with some amazing drummers today , BUT , was a bit let down by the lack of “left” foot play (right foot for the lefty) ..

I am someone who has always emphasized the play of the left foot at practically all times (except the very few times it’s not needed) ..

As bad as this sounds , I left there more amazed with my own play , over others , for this particular reason (amongst a few other tendencies) ..

Still , fantastic players , all of them , incase any are on here , by chance ,, but once again , the less dominant FOOT is vital for both hi hat and double bass play, there is so much that can be done with that limb.

In fact, I’m most surprised, by my own thought, of how I would rank each limb , for ANY drummer , putting the limb I do the most study with , as the limb I perceive to be the fourth most important limb to master.

1 Left foot (less dominant)

2 Right hand

3 Right foot

4 Left hand (less dominant)


- silly thread maybe , but was amazed by my own perception of things , and thought I would share.

 

[bpaluzzi]

Played with some amazing drummers today , BUT , was a bit let down by the lack of “left” foot play (right foot for the lefty) ..

I am someone who has always emphasized the play of the left foot at practically all times (except the very few times it’s not needed) ..

As bad as this sounds , I left there more amazed with my own play , over others , for this particular reason (amongst a few other tendencies) ..

Still , fantastic players , all of them , incase any are on here , by chance ,, but once again , the less dominant FOOT is vital for both hi hat and double bass play, there is so much that can be done with that limb.

In fact, I’m most surprised, by my own thought, of how I would rank each limb , for ANY drummer , putting the limb I do the most study with , as the limb I perceive to be the fourth most important limb to master.

1 Left foot (less dominant)

2 Right hand

3 Right foot

4 Left hand (less dominant)


- silly thread maybe , but was amazed by my own perception of things , and thought I would share.

For rock / pop, I strongly disagree.

You can be a perfectly fine gigging-level drummer and never learn to do anything with your hihat foot.

Can't say the same about the snare/backbeat hand or the kick foot.

Most of the time I find grooves with the hi-hat chattering away on steady foot 8th notes (looking at you, Joey Kramer ) to be overkill.

For me:
Kick is the most important (and usually the easiest way to tell if someone is an amateur or a pro -- where does EVERY kick note fall?)
Snare is the 2nd most
"ride" hand is the next
hi hat foot is a distant, distant, distant fourth. It's the garnish on a nicely composed dish, not the main entree.

 

[Mapex Always]

For rock / pop, I strongly disagree.

You can be a perfectly fine gigging-level drummer and never learn to do anything with your hihat foot.

Can't say the same about the snare/backbeat hand or the kick foot.

Most of the time I find grooves with the hi-hat chattering away on steady foot 8th notes (looking at you, Joey Kramer ) to be overkill.

For me:
Kick is the most important (and usually the easiest way to tell if someone is an amateur or a pro -- where does EVERY kick note fall?)
Snare is the 2nd most
"ride" hand is the next
hi hat foot is a distant, distant, distant fourth. It's the garnish on a nicely composed dish, not the main entree.

I couldn’t disagree more, but I love the response! And appreciate the honesty, which I’ve always come to rely on with you

 

[Mapex Always]

For rock / pop, I strongly disagree.

You can be a perfectly fine gigging-level drummer and never learn to do anything with your hihat foot.

Can't say the same about the snare/backbeat hand or the kick foot.

Most of the time I find grooves with the hi-hat chattering away on steady foot 8th notes (looking at you, Joey Kramer ) to be overkill.

For me:
Kick is the most important (and usually the easiest way to tell if someone is an amateur or a pro -- where does EVERY kick note fall?)
Snare is the 2nd most
"ride" hand is the next
hi hat foot is a distant, distant, distant fourth. It's the garnish on a nicely composed dish, not the main entree.

The more I read this (read it 4 times) a lot of what you’re saying here is true, but for whatever reason I cannot change my brain, or the perception of what my brain is trying to pull from what it’s seeing and hearing and feeling when I watch drummers play. A drummer that can carefully carry the hi hat the way it needs to be played , seems to my ear, to ALWAYS carry every other limb that much “better” , the play and sound is just more, I don’t even know what word I want to use, but it’s more of whatever that word is

And most importantly, I feel it, I own it, when I play. I believe that’s why the hi hat is my second favorite instrument.

But, what you said about the bass drum , it’s just fantastically spot on! So when I say I disagree, I don’t disagree with your thoughts at all. Just your placement.

Surprisingly the two limbs I rank as the most important , you rank as the least important.

Again I know , that you know , all the limbs are important. But , you know what I’m trying to say. This subject fascinates me. No idea why. But , spending all those hours today with these people, this particular phenomenon just JUMED out and reiterated a thought that’s always been at the forefront of my cortex when I’m doing anything or watching anything that involves drumming.

I better go to bed

 

[Tornado]

I need to spend a few weeks with something like The New Breed getting my left foot working 8th notes. That's my weakest thing. Especially at fast tempos. I can keep quarters going all day. I should just spend time working my endurance with my left foot. When it gets fast, I can't keep up for too long. It's not the most useful thing in the world, but it's definitely a weak spot for me. I've been telling myself that for a long time though. I always have other higher priorities like learning songs. Such is the life of a drummer with a day job.

 

[pwc1141]

I do what is called for in my jazz settings in regards to my left foot. It constantly plays the "chick" on 2 and 4 and is my time keeper for all else. I know that rock being left hand and right foot oriented versus jazz being left foot and right hand oriented plays into all this.

 

[Matched Gripper]

Played with some amazing drummers today , BUT , was a bit let down by the lack of “left” foot play (right foot for the lefty) ..

I am someone who has always emphasized the play of the left foot at practically all times (except the very few times it’s not needed) ..

As bad as this sounds , I left there more amazed with my own play , over others , for this particular reason (amongst a few other tendencies) ..

Still , fantastic players , all of them , incase any are on here , by chance ,, but once again , the less dominant FOOT is vital for both hi hat and double bass play, there is so much that can be done with that limb.

In fact, I’m most surprised, by my own thought, of how I would rank each limb , for ANY drummer , putting the limb I do the most study with , as the limb I perceive to be the fourth most important limb to master.

1 Left foot (less dominant)

2 Right hand

3 Right foot

4 Left hand (less dominant)


- silly thread maybe , but was amazed by my own perception of things , and thought I would share.

I would say that the importance of that limb, compared to the others, depends on the style of music I’m playing. When playing jazz, it’s #2 behind my ride cymbal limb. In most other genres it’s #4. But, I’ve always felt an obligation to do something with the hi hats when playing on the ride cymbal or playing fills or solos. There are so many creative and cool ways to use the hi hats, comping, splashing, bass foot substitutions.

There’s a video of a Sean Rickman clinic in which he talks about the importance of using the high hats as a reference for the benefit of band mates and the audience to make it easier for them to follow the beat and know where one is, which is all the more important when you can play the crazy stuff he plays.

 

[toddbishop]

I don't know about amazing drummers, just playing the drums in music is mostly about cymbal, snare drum, and bass drum. The left foot is mostly just there to make simple rhythms, splash sounds, and for tone control on the hihat. I do more than that with it, but I don't have any grand musical designs to make the cymbal clapper device any more central than that.

 

[Rock Salad]

I just do quarters on it but it definitely helps my feel. I don't really work on it except that it is a part of anything else I work on. And my top priority at the moment is my R hand, learning to play other things than every single eighth or sixteenth- trying not to play the whole grid all the time with that hand

 

[drums1225]

The hi hat is the most expressive instrument on the drum set, with the most sound options, but for me, left the foot "chick" sound was not part of my thing until I started listening to fusion and jazz in my late teens. I always thought it was silly/redundant to play 8th notes with the left foot while playing 8ths on the ride with the right hand.

Once I heard David Garibaldi's use of left foot hi hat 8ths to "glue" together his syncopated, displaced grooves, and broken right hand patterns, I realized what I was missing, and I've been playing "catch-up" with my left foot ever since.

I pretty much gave up double bass around 10 years ago, after playing it for over 30 years. My stylistic preferences have long since moved away from metal and I just don't hear it in my head anymore.

Played with some amazing drummers today , BUT , was a bit let down by the lack of “left” foot play (right foot for the lefty) ..

I am someone who has always emphasized the play of the left foot at practically all times (except the very few times it’s not needed) ..

What style(s) of music? Very few times when the left foot is not needed? You could play a whole rock, pop, or country gig and never use your left foot, other than to keep the hats closed. Not saying that's the best way to approach the music, but what makes you consider it "needed"?

As bad as this sounds , I left there more amazed with my own play , over others , for this particular reason (amongst a few other tendencies) ..

Still , fantastic players , all of them , incase any are on here , by chance ,, but once again , the less dominant FOOT is vital for both hi hat and double bass play, there is so much that can be done with that limb.

No argument there.

In fact, I’m most surprised, by my own thought, of how I would rank each limb , for ANY drummer , putting the limb I do the most study with , as the limb I perceive to be the fourth most important limb to master.

1 Left foot (less dominant)

2 Right hand

3 Right foot

4 Left hand (less dominant)


- silly thread maybe , but was amazed by my own perception of things , and thought I would share.

As Brandon said, in rock, pop, or country, the left foot is a distant fourth priority. I have to ask, what were you doing with your left foot that so impressed yourself? Unless you're doing some Jack DeJohnette level stuff, I can't imagine one's hi hat (or 2nd bass drum) foot being the X factor in (m)any musical situation(s).

How can your left foot be more important than your left hand? One's left hand does a LOT to define feel. The placement and sonic consistency of your backbeats, ghost notes that can almost single-handedly (pun intended) define your rhythmic grid, comping in jazz styles, etc.

 

[Houndog]

Every limb is important as the other in context …..

I’m amazed by most local drummers lack of left foot hat though , but you can bet that song ending gets some double pedal action !!



All limbs matter !!!

 

[rsmittee]

This guy wrote a whole book about the hi-hat foot, and he has some pretty innovative stuff.

 

[Houndog]

@Mapex Always

Why the need to make everything a competition ?

 

[Squirrel Man]

My left foot can sometimes play more precise than my right foot when I'm using doubles and switching feet up. Don't know why, probably because I've practiced a bit with doubles and I do a lot of foot tapping behind the desk at work.

 

[Mapex Always]

So extremely fascinated by this thread, and a perfect example was today ,, played with one of the drummers from yesterday again, a no left footer ,, and a gentleman that was not there yesterday , what a difference in how I perceived his sound , he was a left footer!

Thank goodness I’m a left footer , ha! I know silly, but so fascinating to me, because I feel it’s an absolute requirement to achieve the highest level of drumming, chances are I could be wrong, yet I feel it , own it , think it.

OK, for those interested here’s my answers to some of these questions -

@Houndog , I did not know everything was a competition with me? But, if it is , it must be the Mapex in me

@drums1225 , I could not imagine playing a rock, pop, country song without what I consider proper hi hat play from the left foot , but again that’s just me. I’m not saying you or Brandon or anyone else that is doing it some other way than I, are incorrect with their approach.

Also as a sidenote, if you read my original post, I’m talking more than just the hi hat from the left foot , but I will focus on the hi hat with these answers.

The very few exceptions to not using your left foot, for me are when I play certain jungle beats, country train beats, snare marching rhythmic beats for solos were no cymbals are called for , soft compositions that require no hat , when just a closed or open hat is called for and certain tom work reminiscent of Gene Krupa’s work on “Sing Sing Sing” .. That’s about it.

As to what I’m doing with my left foot, EVERYTHING there is so much that limb can bring to the table. But, bigger than that point, is THIS point, that limb makes every other limb perform and sound that much better .. It’s not that it’s more important than the left hand as a tool for drumming , as I noted , that’s the limb I do my most studies with , it (left foot) , FOR ME , is the most important limb to master because of what it does for your left hand , your other limbs.

I find , surprisingly , a lot of drummers do not have this limb mastered , get a group of drummers playing complicated patterns , and most will kick butt on them ,, throw the hi hat into that pattern and you’ll lose more than half of those drummers.

Another thought I have, and I truly believe it to be so, though it’s not something I’ve experimented with, but it’s something I’ve experienced , take 10 drummers, do a recording of them and leave out the hi hat microphone .. then listen to those recordings , I believe it would be very obvious , based on the other three limbs , what drummers were using their left foot to help carry that rhythm … It would have such an organic feel to their play ability, an innate intelligence if you will.

Sorry I’m geeking out on this but I absolutely am fascinated by this type of theory and practice.

One last point, a tremendous chef, one of the most renowned in the country , from Per Se and French laundry , who has cooked for me countless times , Thomas Keller .. is of the belief that the tiniest ingredient on his plate , the smallest element, yet separate from the main product on that plate , separate from the main attraction , is as important or more important to deliver the true essence of that entire presentation .. FOR ME that’s the HI HAT.

 

[toddbishop]

So extremely fascinated by this thread, and a perfect example was today ,, played with one of the drummers from yesterday again, a no left footer ,, and a gentleman that was not there yesterday , what a difference in how I perceived his sound , he was a left footer!

Thank goodness I’m a left footer , ha! I know silly, but so fascinating to me, because I feel it’s an absolute requirement to achieve the highest level of drumming, chances are I could be wrong, yet I feel it , own it , think it.

OK, for those interested here’s my answers to some of these questions -

@Houndog , I did not know everything was a competition with me? But, if it is , it must be the Mapex in me

@drums1225 , I could not imagine playing a rock, pop, country song without what I consider proper hi hat play from the left foot , but again that’s just me. I’m not saying you or Brandon or anyone else that is doing it some other way than I, are incorrect with their approach.

Also as a sidenote, if you read my original post, I’m talking more than just the hi hat from the left foot , but I will focus on the hi hat with these answers.

The very few exceptions to not using your left foot, for me are when I play certain jungle beats, country train beats, snare marching rhythmic beats for solos were no cymbals are called for , soft compositions that require no hat , when just a closed or open hat is called for and certain tom work reminiscent of Gene Krupa’s work on “Sing Sing Sing” .. That’s about it.

As to what I’m doing with my left foot, EVERYTHING there is so much that limb can bring to the table. But, bigger than that point, is THIS point, that limb makes every other limb perform and sound that much better .. It’s not that it’s more important than the left hand as a tool for drumming , as I noted , that’s the limb I do my most studies with , it (left foot) , FOR ME , is the most important limb to master because of what it does for your left hand , your other limbs.

I find , surprisingly , a lot of drummers do not have this limb mastered , get a group of drummers playing complicated patterns , and most will kick butt on them ,, throw the hi hat into that pattern and you’ll lose more than half of those drummers.

Another thought I have, and I truly believe it to be so, though it’s not something I’ve experimented with, but it’s something I’ve experienced , take 10 drummers, do a recording of them and leave out the hi hat microphone .. then listen to those recordings , I believe it would be very obvious , based on the other three limbs , what drummers were using their left foot to help carry that rhythm … It would have such an organic feel to their play ability, an innate intelligence if you will.

Sorry I’m geeking out on this but I absolutely am fascinated by this type of theory and practice.

One last point, a tremendous chef, one of the most renowned in the country , from Per Se and French laundry , who has cooked for me countless times , Thomas Keller .. is of the belief that the tiniest ingredient on his plate , the smallest element, yet separate from the main product on that plate , separate from the main attraction , is as important or more important to deliver the true essence of that entire presentation .. FOR ME that’s the HI HAT.

what

 

[Mapex Always]

what

Precisely.

 

[Pibroch]

I often suspect people are sleep deprived when they don’t seem to make sense to others - they’re actually partly asleep or in a type of dream state. But Mapex Always, I believe I get where you’re coming from and I like your stream of consciousness style - very creative. Good thread from my point of view. It’s inspired me to get more serious about working on my hats.

 

[Whitten]

All I can say is it's never a bad thing to work on your weakest skills. My left foot and left hand are weak.
There are some basic drum grooves that require some left foot independence. I used to play a lot of independent sample parts from a pad with my left hand, while my other three limbs were sticking to the main groove.
The important thing here is keeping everything in it's rightful place. 75% of my work requires keeping my left foot firmly on a closed hi-hat. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

 

[Rock Salad]

This guy wrote a whole book about the hi-hat foot, and he has some pretty innovative stuff.

Awesome. But way beyond my capabilities and concept. I have a difficult time doing "and"s with my L foot. I wonder if I can ever get there frome here, because my L foot acts like a (very simple, basic) dancer just grooving along to the music. And I like that function, I feel like it helps my feel even when I'm not actually making sounds with the pedal. But dang, that was cool