Limb priority …

[Mapex Always]

@repete , @Houndog ,, don’t be too sure about that. We went through something similar to this in the past , I was just some clown in a basement playing on mommy’s computer pretending to have a drumstick , I mean I’m not no historian of any sort , but that didn’t age well. I wouldn’t want to drop a second bomb with blazing hi hat skill’s.











JUST HAVING FUN!! For all you know , I stink






@drums1225 , basic or simple is not the point , “entry level” or not , the hi hat brings a sense of air and flow to the instrument , a different feel to the other 3 limbs , that is innately lacking otherwise … in my opinion.


Love all these videos , thoughts , and comments … it helps me assimilate the instrument and learn ,, by far the most fun I’ve had here. Thank you all so much , I’ve actually checked in periodically throughout these past 48 hours more then normal , enjoying all of it! I’m being so sincere on the fact that I’m totally fascinated about this subject and how it raises our instrument to another level.


Anyway don’t judge me on this , as I have said before , I’m a different man and a FAR different drummer today , but when I was 19 many many years ago in 1990 we actually had much success with this band .. touring on and off for 5 years , a very good amount of radio play , a nice income with a singing bonus and a decent following ,, BUT , if you can stand the production and “brightness” , I think I was in my early stages of being obsessed with the hi hat ,, I believe I hit it every chance I got lol

Cool side story to this and 3 other video’s , I did not know they existed til a member here saw them a year ago , apparently my old bass player , I hadn’t seen in 25 years , put them up.

 

[Action_Potential]

Autumn Leaves - Steve Gadd, Chet Baker, Paul Desmond. Gadd plays incredible and it’s a masterpiece. Sounds like he’s doing some “stuff” with his left foot here.

 

[Mapex Always]

On the audio / video I posted above from 1990 -

I remember my obsession about the hi hat was just beginning , and I would left stick it whenever I had the chance , BUT it was also the beginning of my left foot becoming more critical in my play style at the time.

This being the reason I posted it , I remember doing left foot hi hat embellishments on that track and another track at that time , I was trying to perfect it from a masterclass I was taking at Richies music center with Kenny Aronoff.

I also always liked the way Sean Kinney from AIC would use left foot hi hat embellishments on the album Facelift. And , that was around the time we recorded that Tribulation album Into The Night.

Good example of Sean using his left foot this way , can be heard better on AIC’s follow up album Dirt.

And maybe , though the “bright” recording does not help , you can hear me attempting it easier on this track here vs A Better Way above.

As to the Steve Gadd reference above , working on the way he grooves with his left foot can really help flush out one’s hi hat play … a more “simple” (ya right) pattern of his use of the “left foot hi hat” as part of the MAIN groove can be found here , a good piece to start learning a more complex left foot.

Anyways I’m a big fan of the left foot still now 30+ years after my infancy of left footed fascination was just beginning , and I still feel like I’m just scratching the surface.

 

[rsmittee]

@Mapex Always check out this exercise. I attended a master class with Rich a few years ago. His stuff is brain bending.

 

[bigbonzo]

LZ would've been a limp beast if JB had prioritized left foot and right hand over the others.

I believe that if he treated all four limbs equally, we would be in even more awe of the man.

 

[5 Style]

I end up playing the hats with my foot pretty much any time when they're not mashed down and I'm playing them with a stick. I can do 2+4 clicks on just about anything in 4/4 and similarly regular patterns on other time sigs. At slower to middle tempos I can play even 1/8 notes too, though for some reason I have difficulty with 1/4 notes, at least on lots of stuff. I've been using splashes on hats too. If I had the ability to put the hat stomps wherever I want them, I surely would because that's a nice way to add another voice. I feel good about at least being able to put them at regular intervals though... as I think that any new great leap of coordination for me might not ever happen!

All that being said though, I think that it is possible to get away with not playing the hats as I think of the drummer Leon Parker, who plays all kinds of stuff, but even when playing jazz is known to be using the same kit that he's used for lots of his music, one that has only a bass, snare and flat top ride cymbal, so he's obviously not doing any hat stomps when he plays that thing. He can make it swing though, with just that.

 

[fenrir]

I end up playing the hats with my foot pretty much any time when they're not mashed down and I'm playing them with a stick. I can do 2+4 clicks on just about anything in 4/4 and similarly regular patterns on other time sigs. At slower to middle tempos I can play even 1/8 notes too, though for some reason I have difficulty with 1/4 notes, at least on lots of stuff. I've been using splashes on hats too. If I had the ability to put the hat stomps wherever I want them, I surely would because that's a nice way to add another voice. I feel good about at least being able to put them at regular intervals though... as I think that any new great leap of coordination for me might not ever happen!

All that being said though, I think that it is possible to get away with not playing the hats as I think of the drummer Leon Parker, who plays all kinds of stuff, but even when playing jazz is known to be using the same kit that he's used for lots of his music, one that has only a bass, snare and flat top ride cymbal, so he's obviously not doing any hat stomps when he plays that thing. He can make it swing though, with just that.

Nice to hear from a fellow Leon Parker fan. So underrated.

 

[bigbonzo]

@Mapex Always check out this exercise. I attended a master class with Rich a few years ago. His stuff is brain bending.

Whoah.....!!!!! In my dreams.

 

[rsmittee]

Whoah.....!!!!! In my dreams.

Right? You should see some of the stuff Rich does. His independence is incredible.

 

[5 Style]

Nice to hear from a fellow Leon Parker fan. So underrated.

Yeah, I read an article about him, either in the NYT or the Washington Post some years ago and he just sounded so interesting that I had to check it out. I manged to find a cheap used copy of one of his CDs shortly afterward and I was hooked... and bought two more since. They're all consistently good in my book, though the style is something that I might have considered a bit too new age/hippy for what I tend to like. What might have come off as a bit boring/static in someone else's hands though comes off as hypnotic on these Leon Parker albums. It isn't just his gear that's minimal (sometimes he's not playing a kit, but a single conga, a cowbell or some other percussion instrument), but the playing itself, which tends to leave lots and lots of open space and can stick on the same groove for many bars, like a loop... He's really got his own concept though and I'd say that it's a unique, beautiful thing...

It seems to me that he must spend most of his energies teaching as I haven't seen a record of his drop for quite a while or even heard of him being a sideman on much recently...

 

[Olderschool]

All I know is that when I play with some "amazing" players, I am more than a bit let down by all of my limbs control...

 

[Mapex Always]

Excellent videos and info people! Thoroughly enjoyed.

Ha! Thanks for some of the Tribulation likes

As a cool exercise I took my left foot out of the equation in sound , but allowed it to remain in context , using all the same rhythmic patterns that I would with my right and left hand on the Super Tumba as my left foot continued playing it’s part without any sound. Absolutely loved it.

 

[Mapex Always]

A good exercise to work your left foot (even if you can’t read music well) ,, simply - right hand on ride , left hand on snare drum , continual paradiddles , bass drum on each lead right hand note (Rlrr) , accent on each lead left hand note (Lrll) .. do for 8 measures.

Repeat , but add a second bass drum note to every first lower case “l” following the upper case “R” .. do for 8 measures.

Repeat , but instead of the second bass drum note falling on the first lower case “l” , let it drop in the empty space between the second lower case “r” and the accented capital “L” .. do for 8 measures.

For the first 24 measures 8 , 8 and 8 .. left foot on every half note.

For the second 24 measures 8 , 8 and 8 .. left foot on every quarter note.

For the final 24 measures 8 , 8 and 8 .. left foot on every eighth note.


I used this 72 measure exercise today to help explain a good left foot technique for consistent control over that limb for 2 very good self taught players who had no real background on reading music … worked out exceptionally well.

Throw some floor tom , tom tom , bass drum triplets between each group of 24 paradiddles , while maintaining the appropriate half note , quarter note , eighth note rhythm with the left foot for a more polyrhythmic feel.

Maybe not the most complex pattern of music , but one can do some real cool stuff with it.

Drum fun!

 

[Deafmoon]

After, my time back in the 80’s with Gary Chester, I feel if you don’t play the left foot pretty consistently either on or off the beat, then you need to work on it a lot more. Same with left hand weakness. The name of the game is coordination and bringing each limb into balance.

 

[tnsquint]

I don’t know that I would say that the left foot, in contemporary music, would be the most important. (At least with regards to hi-hat playing). In fact, as others have said, it would be the least important IMO.

That said, it is almost certainly the most under utilized instrument on the kit and I would agree that, when used in appropriate situations, a well thought out left foot on the hi hat can positively impact the sound of a groove in a similar way as grace notes on a snare drum. A couple of examples come to mind:

For a big ballad chorus where one might be inclined to play eighth notes on a ride cymbal a typical way to open up the feel would be to accent the down beats and lay back or even ghost the offbeats. That is a very musical option and makes the part sound huge. Another would be to simply play quarter notes with right hand and play all the offbeats with your left foot. Very simple but can really open up dramatic choruses.

I saw Sting playing an acoustic session and they were playing a 6/8 piece. I don’t recall the song. Instead of playing 1 2 3 4 5 6 with his right hand, Vinnie played 1 3 5 with his right hand and 2 4 6 with his left foot. OK cool, but note, you NEVER heard an open hi hat and the tempo was none too slow. It was stick, chick, stick, chick, stick, chick. It made the hi-hat pattern feel more like a shaker and was beautifully executed. I’ve managed to work that up as eighth notes on moderate tempo pieces and it is cool, but nowhere near what he was doing.

 

[thejohnlec]

I’ve spent a lot of time working up the left foot on hi hat to be able to place it in where it’s needed, knowing full well that it’s not always musically necessary to have it in there. I’m perfectly happy to not be doing something with it if the music doesn’t call for it.

 

[Mapex Always]

I’ve spent a lot of time working up the left foot on hi hat to be able to place it in where it’s needed, knowing full well that it’s not always musically necessary to have it in there. I’m perfectly happy to not be doing something with it if the music doesn’t call for it.

Agreed.

But , what I have found in past and recent studies , and this has ALWAYS held true , lots of drummer’s pick and choose what parts of music needs a hi hat left foot based one’s ability to add it.

Take the piece I wrote above , playing that with, and without a left foot is an entirely different animal. No left foot your gliding right along , add the left foot and the other three limbs fall apart.

BUT , take the time to nail it , master that left foot , and the ENTIRE piece of music benefits from it.

 

[jkuhl]

How

So extremely fascinated by this thread, and a perfect example was today ,, played with one of the drummers from yesterday again, a no left footer ,, and a gentleman that was not there yesterday , what a difference in how I perceived his sound , he was a left footer!

Thank goodness I’m a left footer , ha! I know silly, but so fascinating to me, because I feel it’s an absolute requirement to achieve the highest level of drumming, chances are I could be wrong, yet I feel it , own it , think it.

OK, for those interested here’s my answers to some of these questions -

@Houndog , I did not know everything was a competition with me? But, if it is , it must be the Mapex in me

@drums1225 , I could not imagine playing a rock, pop, country song without what I consider proper hi hat play from the left foot , but again that’s just me. I’m not saying you or Brandon or anyone else that is doing it some other way than I, are incorrect with their approach.

Also as a sidenote, if you read my original post, I’m talking more than just the hi hat from the left foot , but I will focus on the hi hat with these answers.

The very few exceptions to not using your left foot, for me are when I play certain jungle beats, country train beats, snare marching rhythmic beats for solos were no cymbals are called for , soft compositions that require no hat , when just a closed or open hat is called for and certain tom work reminiscent of Gene Krupa’s work on “Sing Sing Sing” .. That’s about it.

As to what I’m doing with my left foot, EVERYTHING there is so much that limb can bring to the table. But, bigger than that point, is THIS point, that limb makes every other limb perform and sound that much better .. It’s not that it’s more important than the left hand as a tool for drumming , as I noted , that’s the limb I do my most studies with , it (left foot) , FOR ME , is the most important limb to master because of what it does for your left hand , your other limbs.

I find , surprisingly , a lot of drummers do not have this limb mastered , get a group of drummers playing complicated patterns , and most will kick butt on them ,, throw the hi hat into that pattern and you’ll lose more than half of those drummers.

Another thought I have, and I truly believe it to be so, though it’s not something I’ve experimented with, but it’s something I’ve experienced , take 10 drummers, do a recording of them and leave out the hi hat microphone .. then listen to those recordings , I believe it would be very obvious , based on the other three limbs , what drummers were using their left foot to help carry that rhythm … It would have such an organic feel to their play ability, an innate intelligence if you will.

Sorry I’m geeking out on this but I absolutely am fascinated by this type of theory and practice.

One last point, a tremendous chef, one of the most renowned in the country , from Per Se and French laundry , who has cooked for me countless times , Thomas Keller .. is of the belief that the tiniest ingredient on his plate , the smallest element, yet separate from the main product on that plate , separate from the main attraction , is as important or more important to deliver the true essence of that entire presentation .. FOR ME that’s the HI HAT.

Do you pay a train beat without the hats alternating with the kick? That beat would sound naked to me without it.

Oddly enough. I saw Roy Haynes with Chick Corea several years ago and he didn't, or barely touched, the hats with his foot. It was something I couldn't un-hear or un-see after I realized what was going on. Bill Stewart is the man with his left foot hihat work. One of my favorites.

 

[ThomFloor]

In fact, I’m most surprised, by my own thought, of how I would rank each limb , for ANY drummer , putting the limb I do the most study with , as the limb I perceive to be the fourth most important limb to master.

1 Left foot (less dominant)

2 Right hand

3 Right foot

4 Left hand (less dominant)


- silly thread maybe , but was amazed by my own perception of things , and thought I would share.

But they are all important. It doesn't have to be so exclusive.
What you ranked #4 to study and master is the most likely to impact your ability to do ghost notes or comping, probably one of the more finess and important aspects of drumming other than simple back beat playing.
Perfecting #1 over #2 means your jazz ride quarter note is less impactful than keeping time on the high hats.
Working on #1 over #3 could mean a weaker or later downbeat than the time kept on the high hats.
And so on.