Looking for kick help with "Barracuda"

der Schlagzeuger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
97
Reaction score
4
Location
Annapolis. MD
I'm having a difficult time smoothing out the kick beat in Barracuda by Heart - Michael Derosier
The other members of my band love the song so I'm hesitant to tell them I'd like to drop it.
I just can't seem to get a technique that works for me for the main groove and it's becoming frustrating.
It just sounds sloppy.

I've been working with Jo Jo Mayer's DVD but it hasn't helped me much.

Can you tell me what technique you use for the cover of this? Heel down? Heel up? Sliding? Some combination?

(I'm almost getting to the point where I might break out my double pedal but I really don't want to.)

Thanks.
 

cworrick

The BIG Bunny on the block
Joined
Sep 19, 2005
Messages
6,853
Reaction score
727
Location
Northeast Indiana
der Schlagzeuger said:
I've been working with Jo Jo Mayer's DVD but it hasn't helped me much.

Can you tell me what technique you use for the cover of this? Heel down? Heel up? Sliding? Some combination?
1. Keep working in these areas. You may modify them slightly to fit you and how you play.
2. I took JoJo's advise on his pedal and applied some of it to my existing pedal and setup: Played with the spring tension a little. Also actually ended up tightening the BD batter head a little which gave me a little more bounce for doubles as well.
3. I also tilted my BD back a bit so the beater hit the head a little more directly rather than on the slight down angle like most pedals do. JoJo talks a little about the beater contact angle of his pedal in the video so I tried the tilt idea with the BD instead of shelling out $$$ for a new pedal. It made a NOTICEABLE difference.

good luck.
 

Tigerdrummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
744
Reaction score
244
Location
Ohio
I'm a newbie and the bass is a problem for me. I was told about Colin Bailey's stuff on you tube. I'v been doing some of his exercises and it helps immensely. I know he has a dvd etc but I havent gotten to that yet
 

xsabers

World's Second Most Okayest Drummer
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
10,727
Reaction score
1,730
Here's the cheat: Simply replace the double stroke with a single one 16th ahead of the snare beat. 99% of the audience won't know and you can be super solid for your band mates. Then, continue woodshedding starting slow and CLEAN, gradually speeding up until you can nail it at speed and CLEAN. Then add it to your performance and feel great about your accomplishment without suffering the dredded feeling of failure in the meantime. Remember, you are trying to hang with one of the greats so there is no shame in the struggle.
 

Hop

DFO Veteran
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
1,907
Reaction score
396
Location
L.A., CA
Check the clip out for the isolated track... remember MD is a real-deal heavyweight in his early prime!
Download it or play along directly from YT. If using YT, don't forget to use the "Settings" tool and simply slow the track down to 0.75 or 0.50.
If you D/L, drop it into Audacity and slow it down as well.


Then just practice the heck out of it. It's good to go slower and cleaner at first, but then you'll have to push it to gain speed and remember it's OK to be sloppy during practice - that's what practice is for, to push your limits and grow.

For me, I play back on the footboard (the ball of my foot is ~ at the halfway mark on the foot board.
I'm a heel up kinda' guy (meaning that it's barely off the floor, and I drive the pedal through the ankle joint and associated muscles not unlike how your wrist is manipulating the stick on the other drums).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

der Schlagzeuger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
97
Reaction score
4
Location
Annapolis. MD
xsabers said:
Here's the cheat: Simply replace the double stroke with a single one 16th ahead of the snare beat. 99% of the audience won't know and you can be super solid for your band mates. Then, continue woodshedding starting slow and CLEAN, gradually speeding up until you can nail it at speed and CLEAN. Then add it to your performance and feel great about your accomplishment without suffering the dredded feeling of failure in the meantime. Remember, you are trying to hang with one of the greats so there is no shame in the struggle.
I like that idea a lot. That will give me some breathing room without disappointing the band.


And thank you for the Youtube track, Hop. I'm able to hear some other details that I've missed in the full song track.


I appreciate the advice and words of encouragement from everyone!
 

JimmyFenno

Very well Known Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
861
Reaction score
53
Location
Austin, Texas USA
Bonham, and the sisters and relatives get into some sweet arguments backstage. The band rocks huge>>>>>>>>
 

AaronLatos

spang spang a lang
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
4,046
Reaction score
174
Location
upstate NY
My practice routine for parts I have difficulty with the speed of:

1) play it... extremely slowly. No, slower than you're imagining. Slower than half speed. So slow there's no way you could possibly make a mistake, then go 20bpm slower. Dig your sticks/beater in to the surface of the drumheads/cymbals. This physiological feedback will help build "muscle memory" (an inaccurate term, but it conveys the gist of it). 10 minutes here

2) speed up to the tempo where you first start to falter or feel uneasy, then back off slightly to where you're not making mistakes, but at your "comfortable peak." This is where your growth will happen. 10 minutes here

3) speed up to faster than your goal tempo. Stumble through it. The point here is to get a sense of what that tempo will "feel like." 5 minutes tops, 2-3 is enough.

4) end with 3 min of #1, 3 min of #2.

If you can do this 3 times a week, you'll be there real fast.

Also, specific to this particular song: waiting on the bus, at work, and most importantly, before bed, play paradiddles between your left hand and right foot.

That isolated drum track is killer. Such a great song!
 

Hop

DFO Veteran
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
1,907
Reaction score
396
Location
L.A., CA
Good routine Aaron.
Going slow is so under-rated, it's such a valuable training process.

Heck we used to throw out this saying at work all the time, "You gotta' go slow, to go fast."
It was our shorthanded way of saying that you have to understand what ever your doing before you go do something (and we were doing complex hazard ridden tasks frequently).
 

JazzDrumGuy

DFO Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
8,112
Reaction score
1,137
Location
Pebble Beach, CA
I am unskilled and untrained, so excuse my lack of fancy musical terms, but it sounds very similar to Achilles Last Stand (obviously) with a snare ahead of the first bass hit. I've never heard that snare hit nor played it that way. I have always played it with 3 quick bass hits and the main snare hit........ and it sounded fine. I am sure your audience won't miss that first snare hit and I'd just play it to lock the groove with the bassist.......
 

Toast Tee

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
813
Reaction score
259
I am unskilled and untrained, so excuse my lack of fancy musical terms, but it sounds very similar to Achilles Last Stand (obviously) with a snare ahead of the first bass hit. I've never heard that snare hit nor played it that way. I have always played it with 3 quick bass hits and the main snare hit........ and it sounded fine. I am sure your audience won't miss that first snare hit and I'd just play it to lock the groove with the bassist.......
Jojo is an amazing drummer!
That being said, I have watched his videos on technique, loosened my spring tension....all that. It's definitely not for me.
There's a real good video on bass drum speed, and endurance on Drumeo. To hit 100 bpm playing "Bonham " 16th note triplets for a minute is very impressive. (Something to check out)
I agree with the advice you got *leave out the 1st 16th note. It will get you by until you get your foot happening.

I have to warm my foot up before I start playing, as I believe my foot/feet is key for my overall time.
Try setting your click real slow, and play 1/8th notes on your hats, along with your kick. Gradually speed it up over time. (Aim for a final goal of 160+) That tune "Go with the flow" by Queens of the Stoneage is a good target for now.
Also that, try playing the beat for the Immigrant song, making sure you get the grace notes in.
I believe the tempo is around 115 or so. Once you're comfortable, take your click up every day.
If the Drumeo lesson doesn't help you, your foot will figure it out.
Be sure to always use a click for this one, as it can be easy to start speeding it up. Your adrenaline may start flowing, or you may start questioning your time (so it's key to also listen! especially to the vocalist)
The "meat and potatoes " ofAchilles last stand is basically the same beat.
Achilles is a bit faster, and a good practice speed, as you want your ceiling to be higher than you need.

Spend 15-20 min a day working on foot accuracy, and speed. You'll have it faster than you think.
For now, play it as recommended until it's no longer an issue.
 

lrod1707

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
Messages
2,332
Reaction score
804
Location
Florida
#1 I'd break out the double pedal. No need to make things harder in my opinion. 30 years ago I could play that all day long with a single pedal. Today not to much! Today with age after a few minutes of quick pedal movements on a single side (right side) I get a burning pain on the muscle just below my shin. #2 I would play it heel up.
But heel position results can vary on what feels comfortable and right for you.
 

Latest posts



Top