ludwig? 3ply shell identify help!

fivestarkid

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
182
Reaction score
19
Location
glenville n.y.
I just bought a 12 and 16" clear 3 ply? set of drums advertised as 70's ludwig rockers. previous owner said they sounded amazing. price was cheap. couldn't resist. im not a Ludwig expert but I didn't think Ludwig made 3 ply rockers or rockers with rings. early rockers were reported using standard lugs and 4 ply shells but nobody ever mentions if they had rings...that's the mystery I guess. they came with 2 Ludwig medium ensemble coated heads on batter. no badge as the first owner ( im third ) did a D.I.Y. on these and im assuming unwrapped them and tried to stain them. doesn't look bad but never replaced the badge and the outter plies took a little bit of it a hit. a bunch of hairline cracks. but im gonna re wrap these I think. especially if these are the 3 ply Ludwig classic maple shells.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

JazzDrumGuy

DFO Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
7,529
Reaction score
862
Location
Pebble Beach, CA
I don't know much about Rockers, but I do know those are not Rocker lugs (I mean, they LOOK like them but are not them!), nor does the tom mount look Ludwigy or the FT leg mount......and it's odd that the screws have cups on the insides. Those are usually used for metal shells as the shell is thin and the screws are too long. They do look like maple in and out (not MIJ luan) but they look refinished on the outside, too. I also want to say the reinforcing rings is too short.

What is the lug hole spacing? It should be 1.25" (classic small) or 1.75" (classic large).
Rocker's use the same hole spacing but are just rounded lugs....
 

Mcjnic

DFO Veteran
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
2,015
Reaction score
588
Early edition Standard Lugs with the correct washers inside.
 

fivestarkid

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
182
Reaction score
19
Location
glenville n.y.
I don't know much about Rockers, but I do know those are not Rocker lugs (I mean, they LOOK like them but are not them!), nor does the tom mount look Ludwigy or the FT leg mount......and it's odd that the screws have cups on the insides. Those are usually used for metal shells as the shell is thin and the screws are too long. They do look like maple in and out (not MIJ luan) but they look refinished on the outside, too. I also want to say the reinforcing rings is too short.

What is the lug hole spacing? It should be 1.25" (classic small) or 1.75" (classic large).
Rocker's use the same hole spacing but are just rounded lugs....
 

fivestarkid

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
182
Reaction score
19
Location
glenville n.y.
spacing is 1 11/16" …..its Ludwig standard hardware. early rockers were reported using the classic maple shells. I guess Ludwig did what ever they wanted back then. and they are thin shells hence the spacers inside. the ist owner did a d.i.y. project and I believe unwrapped them and attempted to stain them and didn't replace the badges. also read that some standard size lugs are more rare and this could be model that not many were made. im gonna get to the bottom of it one way or another....thanks for input
 

K.O.

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
19,103
Reaction score
1,078
Location
Illinois
Hard to say, they definitely appear to be Ludwig 3 ply shells, which were used for many things. The most obvious thing would be Ludwig Standards that somebody stripped but they would more typically ( though not 100%for certain) have a mahogany outer ply and the interior would have originally been either white resocoat or granitone finish. The thing with 3 ply shells is there weren't specific shells for specific things, they made them with what they had on hand ( either maple or mahogany and always a poplar core) and used them for whatever. Most shells after 1968 had maple interior plies and anything that was going to be painted or stained had a maple exterior ply but beyond that it's a bit of a crapshoot as far is what is surrounding the poplar ply.

Those lugs will interchange with classic lugs so they could have been switched out. I don't recall any Rocker series drums in the three ply era but Ludwig was known not to waste anything so if they had some leftover 3 ply shells laying around they would have come up with some way to build them into something they could sell. If the bages are gone it's going to be hard to say definitively what series they might have started out as but a 3 ply shell is a 3 ply shell...at least as far as Ludwig was concerned, be it Classic, Club Date, Standard, or ( possibly) Educator.
 

DrumR69

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
603
Reaction score
58
Location
Massachusetts
JazzDrumGuy, I do believe you are correct on the small tom mount not being Ludwig.
My 2 cents
Wayne
 

K.O.

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
19,103
Reaction score
1,078
Location
Illinois
The leg mounts are Ludwig Standards. The tom mount was the same bracket but with a regular nut instead of a wing nut. I can't see the one on the small tom in question that well but it looks like a standard bracket with a Tama eyebolt and T handle replacing the original Ludwig one. The classic Ludwig brackets will fit the same hole pattern as the Standards so they can be swapped..

PAGE11.JPG
 
Last edited:

mlayton

Night Creature
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
31,710
Reaction score
251
In the early 80's Ludwig had some 3 ply shells in the economy lines. But they were listed as 3 ply die mold shells. These drums would have hardware like your shells have. But it is my understanding that these particular 3 ply shells did not have re-rings.
 

drumtimejohn

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
139
For, the Standard shell hypothesis works. The mufflers and knobs are Standard correct. The FT bearing edge seems sharp and unlike the roundover Standard and I suppose could have been recut.
 

K.O.

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
19,103
Reaction score
1,078
Location
Illinois
For, the Standard shell hypothesis works. The mufflers and knobs are Standard correct. The FT bearing edge seems sharp and unlike the roundover Standard and I suppose could have been recut.
Standards had the same edges as all the other Ludwigs using the three ply shell so if these aren't right then they'd have been recut regardless of the series they started out as. Given the amount of "hot rodding" these seem to have been through I doubt that having the edges recut would be all that far fetched.
 

ThomFloor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
449
Reaction score
153
early 70's Standards were the lower priced line BUT used the same 3 ply shells as regular Classic Ludwigs. Hardware is the only difference. Those will sound great, good score.
 

Mcjnic

DFO Veteran
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
2,015
Reaction score
588
The edges appear to be the correct sharper edge adjustment for the 70s 3ply layup. Slingerland went through the same sharper edge change at the same time.
 

JJJANSEN

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
19
Reaction score
19
3ply maple poplar mahogany shells. 70s. I think the shells are veneered because the grain is from top to bottom. Ludwig always used the grain from left to right. Normally these shells have classic lugs. Someone replaced them with standard lugs. Same space
 

Latest posts



Top