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YourDrumSound

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Hi all!
Here are 2 videos where I compared a Modern Black Beauty 5x14 with a Vintage 1977 Black Beauty 5x14.

In the first video you'll see a Modern BB as it comes out from the factory compared with a 1977 BB.
In the second video I took off the hardware from the Vintage BB and set it on the Modern BB for a new comparison.

Tuning: of course I've tuned the drums to match as close as possible. I tuned the drums quite low (that is very on demand nowadays) very few snares sound good that low!
We all hear and feel different things, let me know you think.


FIRST VIDEO


SECOND VIDEO

MY FEELING
I've said what I think at the end of the second video, but I'd like to add an extra note.
In the first video the tuning is a tad different (I don't think this is the point..) but in the second video they match.
So, the extra "low-end" that you hear on the Vintage is... the drum!
I own almost every new snare drum that Ludwig offers nowadays and the corresponding Vintage model,so I can say that yes, the vintage ones have a different character and sound.
Dave
 
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sfmill

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Thanks for the comparison and welcome to the forum!

I agree with you, the vintage BB has more lows and a fuller tone.
 

YourDrumSound

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singleflammedmill said:
Thanks for the comparison and welcome to the forum!

I agree with you, the vintage BB has more lows and a fuller tone.
Thanks! I've found several information here, thought I have to give something back.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I listened to the first vid without headphones - they sound pretty identical to me..........nice A/B.....thanks.....
 

DannyPattersonMusic

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Very cool videos. I actually prefer the modern BB tone over the vintage one in both videos.
 

Hanover Fiste

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I liked the modern drum better than the 70's drum. Had more body and tone than the vintage. I didn't hear any difference at all between the two clips.
 

Tmcfour

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I'm not hearing a difference. I don't really care for low tunings on snares though, so maybe it's just my untrained ear can't pick up the differences.
 

Markkuliini

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Yourdrumsound said:
Hi all!
Here are 2 videos where I compared a Modern Black Beauty 5x14 with a Vintage 1977 Black Beauty 5x14.

In the first video you'll see a Modern BB as it comes out from the factory compared with a 1977 BB.
In the second video I took off the hardware from the Vintage BB and set it on the Modern BB for a new comparison.

Tuning: of course I've tuned the drums to match as close as possible. I tuned the drums quite low (that is very on demand nowadays) very few snares sound good that low!
We all hear and feel different things, let me know you think.


FIRST VIDEO


SECOND VIDEO

MY FEELING
I've said what I think at the end of the second video, but I'd like to add an extra note.
In the first video the tuning is a tad different (I don't think this is the point..) but in the second video they match.
So, the extra "low-end" that you hear on the Vintage is... the drum!
I own almost every new snare drum that Ludwig offers nowadays and the corresponding Vintage model,so I can say that yes, the vintage ones have a different character and sound.
Dave

When you say you changed the hardware, does this include the snare wires too?
To me the modern one sounded clearly better, but I suspect that it's because the snare wires are working better on that one. On the modern drum the snares had really longer decay on the snares but it was still controlled, it made the drum sound wider and fatter.
The vintage one sounded hollow to me, like it was bit choked and the snares were bit too tight on that one.
 
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Josh Vibert

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In both videos I hear dissonant overtones with the vintage drum and prefer the cleaner/sweeter tone of the modern drum. However, this may be tuning related as in both videos the modern drum sounds slightly higher in pitch. The slightly "flat" tuning of the vintage drum may be what is causing the dissonant overtones I'm hearing.

Thanks for taking the time to create, edit, and share!
 

YourDrumSound

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Markkuliini said:
Hi all!
Here are 2 videos where I compared a Modern Black Beauty 5x14 with a Vintage 1977 Black Beauty 5x14.

In the first video you'll see a Modern BB as it comes out from the factory compared with a 1977 BB.
In the second video I took off the hardware from the Vintage BB and set it on the Modern BB for a new comparison.

Tuning: of course I've tuned the drums to match as close as possible. I tuned the drums quite low (that is very on demand nowadays) very few snares sound good that low!
We all hear and feel different things, let me know you think.


FIRST VIDEO


SECOND VIDEO

MY FEELING
I've said what I think at the end of the second video, but I'd like to add an extra note.
In the first video the tuning is a tad different (I don't think this is the point..) but in the second video they match.
So, the extra "low-end" that you hear on the Vintage is... the drum!
I own almost every new snare drum that Ludwig offers nowadays and the corresponding Vintage model,so I can say that yes, the vintage ones have a different character and sound.
Dave
When you say you changed the hardware, does this include the snare wires too?
To me the modern one sounded clearly better, but I suspect that it's because the snare wires are working better on that one. On the modern drum the snares had really longer decay on the snares but it was still controlled, it made the drum sound wider and fatter.
The vintage one sounded hollow to me, like it was bit choked and the snares were bit too tight on that one.
Yes, same wires for both snares.
 
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Carlos McSnurf

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JazzDrumGuy said:
Stupid question I forgot to ask but always do - are they both brass, bronze or a mix?
It's not stupid question at all. It's very good question. Modern BB shell is made of brass, the sound character coming from the vintage BB
is darker, slightly drier and resonance is shorter. I have bronze BB from 1988, and mine is quite close to that sound. I noticed that after I had and sold modern BB with gaskets. The difference is evident, under microphone can be not so immediately obvious.
Side note: Maybe this is where the conspiracy theory comes about new old stock of BB shells used in late 80's. In catalogue there are listed ludwig bronze snares and black beauties, also made of bronze.


I like 70's sound over the modern BB. However with proper dampening I think, you can achieve similar results on modern BB.

One note: You can clearly see the lug splay after the gaskets removed. It means modern shell is undersized. Threads of lugs can wore out or damage if not screwed as perpendicular as possible. In my opinion the biggest sound difference makes putting vintage hoops

Yourdrumsound: many thanks for the videos!
 

drumsforme

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Listened to the video with good quality speakers and with headphones....definitely prefer the (Monroe) Modern BB over the Vintage 1977, sounds more full with more character.
 

Chicago.Drum.Exchange

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Thanks for the video! It's always cool hearing how vintage drums hold up against the new stuff. If you're not playing in a studio I really doubt you'd be able to hear a difference. The new luddy stuff is made really well and a lot of the times its made using the same machines they were using in the 60's/70's. Would love some more of these videos!
 

GeneZ

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Low tuning snare that way is what I tried when I first got drums and did not know how to tune yet. It requires no ear, nor skill... I called it dumb tuning back then. :confused5:

Tuning that low kills all the drum's unique resonance and carrying power of the drum. Why get a drum that has excellent resonance and carrying power? Only to kill it?

IMO... That tuning should only be used in the studio, or where the mic becomes your drum, not the drum itself. For, it will never carry playing live without being mic'ed. You will be thrashing away and nothing will be heard in the crowd.

Now... if you are playing in low volume acoustic band? That tuning can work. But any decent snare would do in that case. Save the Black Beauty for its majesty and power.... and quality of sound that can not be replicated with other drums. Why kill it? latest fad?
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Snuff - thank you. I have a modern Monroe 5x14 BB that is brass and it's just okay. I had a modern BB 5" that I had believed was bronze that sounded a lot better but I traded it for the brass one I now have stupidly!

I also have a transition BB just after they went to Monroe that is allegedly bronze (per the studio guy I got it from in a trade) that sounds sick, though.

I prefer the bronze BB but good to know...thanks.
 
J

jaymandude

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JazzDrumGuy said:
Snuff - thank you. I have a modern Monroe 5x14 BB that is brass and it's just okay. I had a modern BB 5" that I had believed was bronze that sounded a lot better but I traded it for the brass one I now have stupidly!
I also have a transition BB just after they went to Monroe that is allegedly bronze (per the studio guy I got it from in a trade) that sounds sick, though.

I prefer the bronze BB but good to know...thanks.
count me as another guy who really prefers the bronze drums..
 

YourDrumSound

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Chicago.Drum.Exchange said:
Thanks for the video! It's always cool hearing how vintage drums hold up against the new stuff. If you're not playing in a studio I really doubt you'd be able to hear a difference. The new luddy stuff is made really well and a lot of the times its made using the same machines they were using in the 60's/70's. Would love some more of these videos!
Hi! I've been following you guys for a long time on YouTube. Hop to have the chance to pay a visit at your store.
I have a rental for recording studio and the Vintage BB has a different tonal charachter when recorded. Of course played live the new one would hold the "road life" way better and in my opinion they're different snares for different applicatons.
Dave
 


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