Ludwig Classic Maple 14x20?

charlesm

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I may have posted this topic a bunch of years ago but I don't see it. So, possible rehash here.

At some point in the future, I will probably order a Classic Maple kit. I tend to be attracted to vintage stuff in general but I do really like the CM line as far as new drums. Many of my live gigs are in un-mic'd situations in large rooms, so I'm interested in a small kit that has a bit more volume than some vintage designs can put out. Also, I'm looking for a floor tom in 15x14, which is obviously next to impossible to obtain vintage, hence the custom order.

14x20 is my favorite overall kick size. As far as CM kicks go in that size, are these powerful drums? My benchmark for 14x20s, which I've mentioned many times on the forum, is the '60s Rogers, which is a killer drum: loud, deep and punchy...deceptively so for its size.

Is the Classic Maple 14x20 anything like that in tone? I realize a lot can be done with tuning and heads, but I'm concerned firstly with the inherent character of the drum. The CM shell seems pretty thin whereas the Rogers design used a very thin shell (in addition to very hard, old-growth wood)--contributing, presumably, to its ability to achieve such a low fundamental.

Any owners care to chime in, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
 

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I don't currently have a 14x20 CM. I have had them in the past, and owned a 3 ply 14x20 for decades. It's a phenomenal drum - probably the most versatile size you can get. It'll tune down low and thumpy for rock/blues, medium for pop/funk, and tighter for jazz/bop. It is the one bass drum size that can truly "do it all".

I currently have both 14x18 and 14x22 CM kicks. I can tell you, I've used the 18" with no mic, on multiple ballroom and larger gigs with my blues band and it simply kills. If it was a 14x20, I likely would not have bought the 22 to add to the kit and simply stuck with a 14x20.
 

blueshadow

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I also have a 14x18 classic maple. To get a nice low fundamental tone I have found using an Aquarian Force head brings the lows out without muffling it too much. The Force is pretty much Aquarian's answer to a Remo Powerstroke so that may work as well, I just like Aquarian. My main kick is a 14x22 but really the 18 could just about keep up. You could always mic it if you needed more volume. A shure 57 laid on a piece of foam or towel next to the pedal works great and is simple.
 

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I played someone else's 14 X 20 Classic Maple a few months ago. It had very good bass response. Not as good as old Rogers, though. Thinner shells have more bass response; thicker shells have more high frequency. Ludwig is probably somewhere in between. The drummer had some kind of Remo muffled head on the batter, and the factory Ludwig front head.

I've found putting an Aquarian Super Kick on any bass drum brings out the bass frequencies noticeably without killing all the sustain.
I prefer the Super Kick I (1 ply), but the II works good, too. Sometimes, I actually need to add a felt strip to cut back the ring a bit.

I prefer an open front head. Most new bass drums come with pre-muffled front head. I wouldn't be surprised it Ludwig does it, too. The first thing I do is cut out the muffling ring.
 

bellbrass

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I had a mid-2000s Ludwig Classic Maple Exotic 14" x 20", and I was surprised at how versatile it was. I could get a low, thumpy sound, as well as a bop sound. As it turned out, I simply didn't like how the size of the bass drum looked in front of me. It was silly; purely vanity-based. I also had a 14" x 20" vintage Ludwig bass with a kit - 3-ply mahogany/poplar from the 60s. That bass drum sounded terrific...but again, same issue I had with it feeling like a toy to me. I'm a rock guy, and a dyed-in-the-wool 22" bass drum guy, I guess.
 

Dave HCV

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I have a 14" x 20" CM bass with a Remo coated Powerstroke 3 batter and the stock Ludwig vintage smooth white reso with a felt strip. I also use a solid maple beater on the pedal. I tune fairly low and get a really nice bass sound. I've had people (other drummers) guess it to be a 22" drum, for what that's worth.
 

CherryClassic

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I wanna CM kit; I wanna CM kit! :crybaby:

And the bass drum would/will be 20".


sherm

PS: I had a Rogers Blue Sparkle 14x20 in the early 6o's.
 

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I've owned both a 20 and 22. Great drums with good volume. I would not classify them as big killer kicks like I've heard from DW or Trick but very usable and toneful
 

Elvis

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charlesm said:
I may have posted this topic a bunch of years ago but I don't see it. So, possible rehash here.

At some point in the future, I will probably order a Classic Maple kit. I tend to be attracted to vintage stuff in general but I do really like the CM line as far as new drums. Many of my live gigs are in un-mic'd situations in large rooms, so I'm interested in a small kit that has a bit more volume than some vintage designs can put out. Also, I'm looking for a floor tom in 15x14, which is obviously next to impossible to obtain vintage, hence the custom order.

14x20 is my favorite overall kick size. As far as CM kicks go in that size, are these powerful drums? My benchmark for 14x20s, which I've mentioned many times on the forum, is the '60s Rogers, which is a killer drum: loud, deep and punchy...deceptively so for its size.

Is the Classic Maple 14x20 anything like that in tone? I realize a lot can be done with tuning and heads, but I'm concerned firstly with the inherent character of the drum. The CM shell seems pretty thin whereas the Rogers design used a very thin shell (in addition to very hard, old-growth wood)--contributing, presumably, to its ability to achieve such a low fundamental.

Any owners care to chime in, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
My '99 18x14 LCM kicks pretty good.
Very dark and a bit cold when it was new, I got it with a clear Silverdot on the back and a black modern logo head up front. The logo head had a 5" hole in the 4 O'clock position (I should say here that I did not order the drum with those heads. In those days, you got what they sent you).
Remo Fiberskyn's Warms and fattens those drums nicely (time helps a little, too).
There's no fatness, no "soft punch" inherent in those shells, so you have to coax it out of them with heads and tuning.
These days my BD wears an FA on the back and a Skyntone on the front, but its always been my favourite drum out of this whole kit.

...and now, an old picture of my kit...





Elvis
 

charlesm

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Very helpful replies. Thanks, all.

Elvis said:
There's no fatness, no "soft punch" inherent in those shells, so you have to coax it out of them with heads and tuning.
You know, I recently messed around tuning some used CM drums in a music store. I have to say, they were plenty fat and punchy. They had a pretty warm, round sound. And I'm saying that as a 3-ply kit owner. They were much closer to the 3-ply sound than I would have expected, but definitely louder and with more attack and sustain.
 

Elvis

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Yes, you can get there, but its not inherent in the shell.
You have to mess with head selection and tuning.
You have a 3-ply, so you know what I'm talking about.
LCM's aren't 3-ply's, which was the comparative I was making with that statement.



Elvis
 

MonkeyGrass

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charlesm said:
Very helpful replies. Thanks, all.

There's no fatness, no "soft punch" inherent in those shells, so you have to coax it out of them with heads and tuning.
You know, I recently messed around tuning some used CM drums in a music store. I have to say, they were plenty fat and punchy. They had a pretty warm, round sound. And I'm saying that as a 3-ply kit owner. They were much closer to the 3-ply sound than I would have expected, but definitely louder and with more attack and sustain.
Elvis said:
Yes, you can get there, but its not inherent in the shell.
You have to mess with head selection and tuning.
You have a 3-ply, so you know what I'm talking about.
LCM's aren't 3-ply's, which was the comparative I was making with that statement.



Elvis
I have to disagree as well. Yes the 3 plys OOOZE warm buttery phatness. However, a well tuned set of CM's contains the same oomph, but with more high-end cut and projection to balance it out. I can muffle my CM's "down" to 3 ply realm, but obviously not the other way around.

I have no problems getting tons of warmth and punch from my LCM's, and no 'coaxing' required. Ludwig Coated Meds on top of Med clears. Boom - there you go. My 14x22 CM bass drum is simply thunderous and rattles bones 40' away un-mic'd.
 

Elvis

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What are you disagreeing, Monkey Grass?
Everything you wrote supports everything I've written.



Elvis
 

MonkeyGrass

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Elvis said:
There's no fatness, no "soft punch" inherent in those shells, so you have to coax it out of them with heads and tuning.
That's all I'm disagreeing with Elvis...

I thought I had clarified that when I added "I have no problems getting tons of warmth and punch from my LCM's, and no 'coaxing' required. Ludwig Coated Meds on top of Med clears. Boom - there you go. My 14x22 CM bass drum is simply thunderous and rattles bones 40' away un-mic'd."

My CM's are naturally warm and punchy. I find the soft warm punch is there, but there is simply more upper-mids to go with it. The shells are more balanced. So when you say "no soft punch" I disagree - it's all there, but with the added midrange these drums have, the overall sound ends up being fuller and flatter across the frequency range.
 

RyanR

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CM's have a rich tone.... but also a crispness, which is pretty cool.

I really love the 22" size.

-Ryan
 

wflkurt

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I actually find classic maples extremely easy to tune. It almost seems like you have to work to make them sound bad IMO. I got my first classic maple set in 2003 when I switched from another brand that was a bear to get right. Once I took delivery of the CM, I did a quick tune job and it was like night and day!
 

Elvis

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Monkey Grass,

Thank you for clarifying your earlier statement.
I see what you're getting at now.
I will say that my bass drum is also pretty thunderous and warm (especially when wearing Fiberskyns and Skyntones), compared to the rest of the kit, but that's just a factor of size.
Overall, considering all the toms that make up the kit, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
16+ years of LCM ownership just says otherwise.
...of course, as I stated before, it could be a factor of size as well.
I'm thinking your drums are larger than mine (I know your bass drum is).




Elvis
 

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my recently acquired cm has a 20 x 16 bass drum(by preference). it`s a very powerful and versatile drum. love it and them. bill
 

Elvis

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wflkurt said:
I actually find classic maples extremely easy to tune. It almost seems like you have to work to make them sound bad IMO. I got my first classic maple set in 2003 when I switched from another brand that was a bear to get right. Once I took delivery of the CM, I did a quick tune job and it was like night and day!
Hey Kurt, don't you have a Legacy kit, too?
Is that just as easy to tune?


Elvis
 

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Elvis said:
Monkey Grass,

Thank you for clarifying your earlier statement.
I see what you're getting at now.
I will say that my bass drum is also pretty thunderous and warm (especially when wearing Fiberskyns and Skyntones), compared to the rest of the kit, but that's just a factor of size.
Overall, considering all the toms that make up the kit, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
16+ years of LCM ownership just says otherwise.
...of course, as I stated before, it could be a factor of size as well.
I'm thinking your drums are larger than mine (I know your bass drum is).




Elvis
No worries man!

My kit is 8x12/14x14/16x16 and I have two kicks - 14x18 and 14x22. Not large sizes at all. Coated Lud Meds over Med Clears.


The difference to me is that my 3 plys, if you were to look at an un-modified spectral EQ analysis, would look something like this:

40 hz \-----/ 20k - naturally boosted hi's and low's... the old Parametric EQ "Smile"

And the LCM's look more like this:

40hz -------- 20k - even and full sounding across the entire spectrum. Couple moongels or an o-ring, and that goes away and they go back to sounding more like 3 plys with the mids and some highs reduced.
 

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