Ludwig Classic Maple...out of round?

[JL9999]

I bought a Ludwig Classic Maple shell pack around 5 years ago from Sweetwater, and at the time, I really didn't know much about drums (still don't really ), but there were things about the tuning that I found strange, though I assumed it was just me not knowing how to tune drums. But there would be dead spots on certain lugs on both the rack tom and floor tom.

Last night, I was trying to get a decent sound on the 16" floor tom, and I realized that maybe the problem all along has been that it's out of round. Not sure if you can tell in the photo, but on one side of the rim, you can see through to the floor between the edge of the clear head and the edge of the drum, and on the other edge, you can't. That ain't good, right?

So my questions are, can this be fixed? Seeing as I bought them 5 years ago, I suppose I'm screwed as far as any warranty goes, right? It's sort of a bummer that this may have been defective from the start, I bought these specifically because I thought it would eliminate quality issues.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[Rhyma Hop]

take off the heads..... take a tape measure.. and check the diameter of the shell....about every few inches moving around the drum.... if it is very close to the same measure.. or quite a bit off.

 

[Trilock_Gurtu]

Have you measured across from each lug? (edge to edge). Do it with the rim and head off. That'll give you an idea, versus eye balling it. As far as fixing a out of round shell, I'm no expert, but apparently it's possible (depending on variables, I'm sure - how bad it is, etc). Drum builder type guys can chime in on that.

 

[Hop]

Just echoing what the others have said...
Get a minimum of 4 points of measure, more is better, to confirm the roundness of the shell. Here's a little visual aid I made a while ago for a member that suspected the issue with their drum.

 

[MrDrums2112]

I suppose anything is possible, but I would be very surprised if they are out of round. I think there would be a better chance that you have a bent hoop there than an out of round drum. I could be wrong, I’m not familiar with Ludwig’s QC these days, but I’d be stunned. Others may chime in here with more info.

 

[JL9999]

It's up to about 3/16" off.

 

[JL9999]

Some pics.

 

[Beefsurgeon]

Agh, I feel for you. Out of round shells happen...definitely not limited to Ludwig.

If the shell was out of round from the get-go, then chances are the edges are still reasonably flat. If so, consider the fact that drumheads are often not perfectly round either. You can try rotating the head and see if there's an orientation that doesn't squeeze the shell as much. You might be able to achieve a sound you can live with this way.

If the edges are not flat, I would suggest taking it to a professional and having them either recut the edges and/or attempt to re-round it. There are some techniques for re-rounding using steam, jigs, and pressure, but you might have to do some searching to find someone with equipped to do it.

 

[Treviso1]

Can you freely spin a brand new Remo head on both bearing edges? Are there tight spots at some point around the drum? Does the head get stuck at one spot? That's a good starting point to check for roundness.

 

[JL9999]

Agh, I feel for you. Out of round shells happen...definitely not limited to Ludwig.

If the shell was out of round from the get-go, then chances are the edges are still reasonably flat. If so, consider the fact that drumheads are often not perfectly round either. You can try rotating the head and see if there's an orientation that doesn't squeeze the shell as much. You might be able to achieve a sound you can live with this way.

If the edges are not flat, I would suggest taking it to a professional and having them either recut the edges and/or attempt to re-round it. There are some techniques for re-rounding using steam, jigs, and pressure, but you might have to do some searching to find someone with equipped to do it.

I think the edges are good. I have tried rotating the drumheads, and I definitely see now that in those specific spots, it touches, and then in the others it doesn't.

I think the fact that I could still get decent sounds is what made me sort of think there's nothing really wrong...but every time I tune, it's sort of frustrating getting them to where I want, and I guess this has been the reason the whole time.

Ugh.

 

[JL9999]

Can you freely spin a brand new Remo head on both bearing edges? Are there tight spots at some point around the drum? Does the head get stuck at one spot? That's a good starting point to check for roundness.

No. In fact, a while ago, I was watching some tuning video, and they said to spin the head, but mine wouldn't spin at all, and I thought, hmmmm, did I get a crappy drumhead.

 

[JDA]

may have to get Remo Classic Fit heads for all of them top and bottom
could probably do that.

Ambassador® Coated Classic Fit

<p>The Ambassador® Classic Fit Drumheads feature a slightly narrow flesh hoop and step design to address oversized drums made prior to the mid 60’s.</p>

remo.com

don't despair don't give up
help is on the way
-----Jerry 1989

 

[Matched Gripper]

I bought a Ludwig Classic Maple shell pack around 5 years ago from Sweetwater, and at the time, I really didn't know much about drums (still don't really ), but there were things about the tuning that I found strange, though I assumed it was just me not knowing how to tune drums. But there would be dead spots on certain lugs on both the rack tom and floor tom.

Last night, I was trying to get a decent sound on the 16" floor tom, and I realized that maybe the problem all along has been that it's out of round. Not sure if you can tell in the photo, but on one side of the rim, you can see through to the floor between the edge of the clear head and the edge of the drum, and on the other edge, you can't. That ain't good, right?

So my questions are, can this be fixed? Seeing as I bought them 5 years ago, I suppose I'm screwed as far as any warranty goes, right? It's sort of a bummer that this may have been defective from the start, I bought these specifically because I thought it would eliminate quality issues.

Thanks for any thoughts.

In my experience, no wood shell is perfectly round. For example, I’ve read that Yamaha’s tolerance is 1/16th of an inch out of round. But, what matters is whether the bearing edge makes contact with the flat part of the drumhead all the way around, and no part of the edge extends into the collar where head curves downward toward the hoop. To that end, many drum makers, including Ludwig, make slightly undersized shells to ensure the edges are within the flat part of the drumhead. Example: I have a CM 14” snare drum that is about 1/16th out of round. But, that’s OK because at it’s widest point it is still in only 13 and 7/8ths across - within the flat part of the 14” drumhead.

Even if you have a bearing edge that extends into the collar, you may be able to remedy that problem by counter-cutting the edge to bring the peak of the edge inward. Some drums have double 45 degree edges that are counter-cut from the factory. Ludwigs have a single 45 degree cut on the inside. So, if needed, you have some room to work with to counter-cut the edge on the outside. Does that make sense?

Having said that, have you checked to see if the bearing edges are true - on a flat plane. This is a more common problem even with very high end drums and has an easier solution. Rest the bearing edges on a flat surface (I like a glass table top), and see if it rocks in any direction. You can also try to slide a piece of copy paper under any part of the bearing edge to test for trueness. The remedy is to sand the edges to trueness on your flat surface. I recently did this myself and will be posting a thread on it shortly.

PS: Correction, the top edge is about 1/8th inch out of round, and the bottom edge is about 3/16ths inch out of round.

 

[155]

I got a out of round ludwig classic maple from sweetwater about 5 years ago and sent it right back they gave me another, Id send it to them and let them get you another one , sweetwater has some juice with ludwig that you wont...

 

[Jhouse86]

I feel your pain. I've had bent rim, out of round shell, and a defective drum head(all at different times on different drums) It's a painful endeavor. I'd strip the rims and heads. 1- measure like was stated before. 2- swap the bottom rim to the top and vice versa and compare the fit with the head. 3- get a new head and check for fit.

 

[JL9999]

I got a out of round ludwig classic maple from sweetwater about 5 years ago and sent it right back they gave me another, Id send it to them and let them get you another one , sweetwater has some juice with ludwig that you wont...

I contacted Sweetwater and they said that their warranty is 2 years and Ludwig's is 3 so I'm out of luck on that front.

I've seen something about stringing a truss between the lugs, or maybe the Remo Classic Fit is the answer.

Thanks for all the replies and tips, etc.

 

[jptrickster]

I contacted Sweetwater and they said that their warranty is 2 years and Ludwig's is 3 so I'm out of luck on that front.

I've seen something about stringing a truss between the lugs, or maybe the Remo Classic Fit is the answer.

Thanks for all the replies and tips, etc.

Had a wicked wonky egg shaped Sonor Phonic floor tom out at least 1/4 inch we made it right with lug screw to lug screw/wire truss method. Played and tuned perfectly. Over time it actually brought the thing back to round, almost.

 

[Butch1970]

Had a wicked wonky egg shaped Sonor Phonic floor tom out at least 1/4 inch we made it right with lug screw to lug screw/wire truss method. Played and tuned perfectly. Over time it actually brought the thing back to round, almost.

Would love to see a pic of a wire-truss rig or directions on how to set one up.

 

[jptrickster]

Unfortunately I don't have the kit anymore and did not document my fix. I can write more later when I have some time.

 

[Butch1970]

Cool, @jptrickster .Just noticed that you’re in FC. I’m in Norwalk, so we must not be too far apart