Ludwig Gullwing spur annoyance. Advice please

robthedrummer

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OK, so I've been reading threads relating to the Ludwig gullwing spurs. Right now the spurs are off while the bearing edges get leveled and re-cut at Precision Drum. (60's Ludwig bearing edges are fun-kee!!)

Anyway, I've read that the spurs often slip due to the smooth eyebolt Ludwig used. Their new eyebolt design uses a ridged gripping surface and others have said that they replaced the eyebolts and all was well.

I got some new eyebolts online from 'Drums on $ale' and they don't fit through the slot in the mount. Their website says they are the actual Ludwig replacement parts. The threaded stem is a bigger diameter. Do I have to replace the original mount also? I was hoping to keep everything original EXCEPT the eyebolt, which is not seen.

I got four of these with the intent to use them at the spurs, tom mount and the cymbal mount. I just wanted the eyebolts to grip a bit more reliably. I really don't want to buy 4 new brackets.

Am I missing something, or did I buy the wrong part? Has everyone who replaced the eyebolt also replaced the mount? If Ludwig seriously thickened the threaded sleeve for no reason, thanks Ludwig!

Also, see the pic below of the gullwing in the mount. There is a metal band (to the left of the eyebolt. Kind hard to see) that keeps the spur from being removed. Did Ludwig do that or did the guy who used to own these drums do that so they wouldn't fall out? Not a bad idea unless you need to remove the spurs.

Thanks all
 

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RyanR

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There are a few differences between the old and new brackets. One reason to change the grabby-screwy thing is that everything is metric now.

Honestly, I replaced all of the brackets (floor tom, tom, cymbal mount, etc.) on my '65 kit. The new brackets have the cut out for a memory lock. That solves the slippy problems for real.

-Ryan
 

cwdrums

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I think Ludwig went from a 1/4 20 thread size to a larger 5/16 18 thread size sometime in the late 60's - anyone?
Coy in Idaho
 

robthedrummer

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These brackets (and drums) are from '66. They changed shortly after that, I suppose?

So which is the better option: Buy the new updated brackets or drill out the originals to accommodate the wider bolts?
 

K.O.

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I think for a while they used two sizes. The smaller size worked with the wing nuts on floor tom leg brackets, spur mounts, and cymbal holders, and the larger size was on the tom mounts using the nut that required a wrench. Later on they went to the bigger T handle on all of them and presumably used one size.

In my personal experience the eyebolts aren't the problem with the swing out spurs. It's not that they slip or move but rather they don't work all that well in any position and are often mounted just a hair too high on the bass drum to hit the floor just right. I prefer the disappearing spurs to the fold outs but can get away using the folders if I have an anchor on the front hoop and a pedal with a Velcro-ed base plate.
 

fun2drum

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K.O. said:
...In my personal experience the eyebolts aren't the problem with the swing out spurs. It's not that they slip or move but rather they don't work all that well in any position and are often mounted just a hair too high on the bass drum to hit the floor just right. I prefer the disappearing spurs to the fold outs but can get away using the folders if I have an anchor on the front hoop and a pedal with a Velcro-ed base plate.
The Ludwig set my band leader generously provides for me for rehearsal has those gull-wings and it actually has both of those issues. The spurs barely get the front of the drum lifted at all because of their high mounting, plus they won't grab tightly enough to hold position. They'll stay put for the most part while I'm playing but if I reach down and try to re position the drum then they completely lose their grip. It's annoying for sure. I don't complain because it's a free 60's Ludwig set to rehearse with.
 

cwdrums

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Rob did the new eye bolts come with new wing nuts? The 1/4 20 wing nuts will obviously not fit the new larger eye bolts. I might be bold enough to try drilling out one of the mounts if I had all the parts - new eye bolt and wing nut. Keep us posted.
Coy
 

MonkeyGrass

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Adding ISO-feet to the gull wings will lift them an additional 1/2" or so, and give some more "grip".

Between the ISO-feet and a velcro-based pedal, I never have any movement or instability from my 60's Luds.
 

RyanR

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I had a WFL bass drum with the even *more* slippy folding spurs. I put a Gibraltar anchor on it, and that drum went nowhere. Never a problem.

As for the Ludwig brackets (the modern p/n is 1216D, IIRC), they've never been wonderful. I love them more than anything else today, but they never grab anything *perfectly*. My new-at-the-time 1997 Ludwig kit always had finicky FT legs. Never a problem when playing, but the legs would slip sometimes when lifting the drum when the loading on the bracket changes.

This is why I swap out vintage ones for the new ones: with the mem locks, these brackets work perfect. Especially the you have something twisty, like a cymbal arm or spurs, in them.

-Ryan
 
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MonkeyGrass said:
Adding ISO-feet to the gull wings will lift them an additional 1/2" or so, and give some more "grip".

Between the ISO-feet and a velcro-based pedal, I never have any movement or instability from my 60's Luds.
Same here.
 

mlayton

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When I was detailing my 66 clubdate kit, I first ran across the smaller model eye bolts. They were short lived around this particular era. The two vertical ridges that hold the eyebolt from moving side to side on the inside are closer together than on the later models. So, even drilling the outside hole larger wouldn't be a fix. I use these originals with a front hoop anchor with no problems. If you did want to change them to the newer style, the new brackets would fit your same bolt holes on your bass drum with no drilling.

Mike
 

Chunkaway

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Related note- does anyone know how I can get longer/taller gullwing spurs? I am using the iso feet, but I'd like it to sit higher.
 

ConvertedLudwigPlayer

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I added Pearl ISO floor tom feet to my 1967 kit. It gave me more "lift" and likely a little more projection. Resonance? I think so.
 

thin shell

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In my experience, the new ones with the knurled eyebolt grip less effectively on the older diamond shaped knurling on the older spurs, legs and L rods. They will be an improvement on the newer spurs, legs and L rods that have the linear knurling.
 

yetanotherdrummer

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My new Club Date set with the gull wing spurs has the same problem of the spurs just barely touching the floor. However, I use a Yamaha BD pedal, and that holds the bass drum in place just fine.
 

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