Ludwig Internal Muffler Screw Position? The age old question...above or below???

Treviso1

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Ludwig Internal Muffler Screw Position? The age old question...above or below??? There seems to be no rhyme or reason for the position of the set screw on the Ludwig internal muffler. Can someone please set me straight on this. I have included several examples of drums from different generations that all seem to defy any "set official" position of this set screw attaching the internal muffler to the drum. You will see pictures of two with the set screw above the tension/position knob of the muffler and pictures of two with the set screw below the tension/position knob on the muffler. What is correct and why???
Ludwig above.jpg
Ludwig above2.jpg
Ludwig Below.jpg
Below2.jpg
 

drumstuff66

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I've wondered about this as well. In Richard Gier's book it's mentioned that the tone control screw hole was originally located below the knob, then at some point was moved above, but no specific time frame is given. As with many things Ludwig, there was probably a crossover period where both were being used until the older, screw below stock ran out.

Screw belows show up on ebay, reverb, etc...so far, that's the only place I've seen them if not already on a drum.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I thought KB (small knob and baseball) was one way and then the large knobs (70's "modern) were the opposite. I don't have any handy now but can confirm configuration tonite. You can interchange them and use older mufflers with newer shells and vice verss, but you will need to widen holes (ie: alter the shell).

Update- Modern mufflers have the screw on top. Baseball bat is screw on bottom as are small knobs. All the above pics seem right except the last one.
 
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drumtimejohn

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I was under the impression that the start of the screw moving above the knob in the mid 70s. Less tension and chance of breaking appears to be the benefit. Awhile back I tracked this change on the Black Beauties. Earliest screw below I’ve seen (small sample) is 157xxxx. Seams like the change to BB screw above is around 188xxxx. Outliers exist for both. In general, since the screw hole is smaller than the shaft for the knob, I recall muffler type is not interchangeable without modification. Your pic of a rounded B/O (BO3) with screw below is the first I’ve seen.
 

Treviso1

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It's so crazy with these internal mufflers. It's not like the holes are different sizes either...either one could work. Every single time I think I have it figured out, there are exceptions to the rules!
It's absolutely nuts!
 

richardh253

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I just love that there are other people out there who think about these things!
 

JBludwig

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I believe the hole for the knob is slightly bigger than the hole for the bolt. But maybe some of them were just installed wrong?
 

Treviso1

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I believe the hole for the knob is slightly bigger than the hole for the bolt. But maybe some of them were just installed wrong?
You would think so, but I am finding that they are both the same size.
 

f15c

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haha I’ve thought about this more than I’d like to admit.
- Pre-serial (1961 I think) Super Classic snare, screw on top of small round knob
- Pre-serial (1963) Jazz Festival snare, screw below baseball bat
- 1968 keystone Acrolite, screw below small round knob
- 1970s pointy B/O Acrolite, screw below small round knob

I run all my drums by Rick Gier as well, as far as I can tell, all these screws are in their correct places. The only one I questioned was the Super Classic, as I think I’ve seen one with screw below baseball bat…which is opposite of mine. Not sure the year on that one though.
 

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