Duh. Forgot that when I asked. I also already had your drums in my list - from a 2011 post of yours.rsq911 said:No discernible date stamps, but as a reminder the single six kit had the finish on the inside of the shells too.
Lol! It happens.KCDrumDad said:
The quote for a 6 month wait time was from circa 1982 - rather than waiting 6 monthsKCDrumDad said:Is this based upon your own personal experience? I would value information from someone who ordered a kit in 1970 and can document their wait time. If you have heard or read this somewhere about the 1970 wait time, can you tell me where you learned this?In 1970 the waiting time for a Ludwig kit was about 6 months.
The employees were doing their best to get assembled kits out the door.
Boxes of badges would arrive and sometimes the order of the boxes would get mixed up
or one box of badges would get dumped into a nearly empty box of badges.
The dumping of badges into bins without regard to their serial numbers is an oft repeated story. On page 210 of his 2003 The Ludwig Book Rob Cook cites Paolo Sburlati for putting this story in writing in his 1999 book, Ludwig: Yesterday and Today. I will have to re-read Paolo's book to find his reference - I am sure it is buried in there [edit - found it - on page 152]. This is the earliest mention that I can find. Rob goes on to quote Chuck Hueck of Ludwig about the procedures for introducing the serial numbered badges into production and assembly. Ned Ingberman quotes William Ludwig Jr. about the practice in his 2002 DRUM! magazine article "How to Date 1960s Ludwig Drums by Serial Number." I was not involved with vintage drums until about ten years ago, so I am not aware if this story was told before Paolo put it in his book. Does anyone know of an earlier reference to this practice? Perhaps on one of the older forums? I am trying to figure out ground zero for the story.
Urk? 4272 days since the beginning of the Julian calendar is a little older than 1974. Wednesday, B.C. 4702 Sep 12 according to the US Navy converter:KCDrumDad said:I saw this interesting theory expressed on a Reverb listing today. https://reverb.com/item/4215828-ludwig-14x6-5-snare-402-supraphonic-1974-chrome The Seller was offering a 6.5"x14" Model 402 snare with the following explanation of the date estimate:
"The drum actually looks too good to be forty years old, but I have a basis for the 1974 date:
1. Pointy Badges
2. Serial Number #929155
3. Paper label inside drum has date of 4272, which I believe is Julian date=30SEP1974?"
I had not considered Julian dates before, and I don't really know how they relate to the Gregorian calendar. I will have to see how the other date codes convert if they are treated as Julian dates. I think that this theory does not take into account the relatively few different Date Codes that exist. If they represent individual dates, they would likely not repeat so often and there would be more different codes. The drum has a Blue/Olive badge without the "circle R" trademark indicator, which is the style of badge associated with the lower serial numbers and was likely no longer in use by 1974. Either way, this is a new and intriguing theory about Date Codes.
There is only one of these which has a four digit number - 4272.* All of the others have five digits. Almost all Date Codes I have recorded have a "7" as the third digit and "1" or "2" as the fourth digit, but 32372 is the lone exception. Since every Date Code recorded so far has either a "71" or a "72" contained within it and these drums are thought to have come from the 1971-1972 time frame, many have considered them as evidence of a 1971 or 1972 manufacture date. That might be correct, but it fails to explain the remaining digits in the Date Code, which at best is incomplete and at worst adds uncertainty about the interpretation of any part of the Date Code.bonzoleum said:What's interesting is that all those 4 digit codes end in 72 (or at least a 7 being the second to last digit). Maybe that's simply when Ludwig printed them up or thought when they'd be used..