Ludwig Transition Kit: Purchased Together??????

GlassGlitter

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Hello,

Just got a stamped 1960 Transition Badge 20 inch, 13 inch, 16 inch and Super-Sensitive Snare. All Transition badge but the Floor Tom. Floor Tom is Pre-Serial....but like I said, the 20, 13, and floor are all red stamped 1960. So...question one: Do you think the Pre-Serial Floor Tom came with the set when purchased, or purchased after? Was that a true "transition" time where kits came with mixed badges? Question Two: Was the Super-Sensitive an upgrade/downgrade, custom order with the kit, or did certain outfits come with a Super-Sensitive? Lastly: Was a 20, 13, 16 even an outfit to be bought or was the kit an entire custom purchase due to the odd sizes and non-wooden snare? Thanks for any help!! Not too much info online about Transitions, and the R. Cook book doesn't seem to have too much either...unless I skimmed to fast :)
 

mlayton

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Nice find! Hard to say for sure. Have seen many kits in which the floor tom was a bit newer for reasons of a later purchase to add to a kit. However, have seen plenty of pre serial stuff with Trans badge drums. If the color fade/shade/lack of fade is consistent, may have been born together. Super Sensitive Trans badge models are not easily found. That's a gem in itself. Ludwig did not catalog this size, but it is a common family of drums. In recent years many have called the 20/13/16 Super Beats having merged a Super Classic 22/13/16 and a Downbeat 20/12/14 from the catalogs. Enjoy the new to you kit. Pics if you can please.

Mike
 

wflkurt

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I didn't think the super sensitive was available in 1960? I thought those came later like 1962-63? I could absolutely see a set come out of the factory this way. it's also certainly possible that the original owner purchased the three piece and added the floor tom a year later. That is pretty common.
 

DrumR69

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GlassGlitter,
Definitely would like to see some pictures.

Wayne
 

mlayton

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I didn't think the super sensitive was available in 1960? I thought those came later like 1962-63? I could absolutely see a set come out of the factory this way. it's also certainly possible that the original owner purchased the three piece and added the floor tom a year later. That is pretty common.
Maybe not cataloged until then Kurt. I know where several Trans Badge Super Sensitives are though.
 

DrumR69

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Wow that is in amazing shape.
So the snare would be brass?
Super Ludwig Super sensitive.
 

GlassGlitter

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Nice find! Hard to say for sure. Have seen many kits in which the floor tom was a bit newer for reasons of a later purchase to add to a kit. However, have seen plenty of pre serial stuff with Trans badge drums. If the color fade/shade/lack of fade is consistent, may have been born together. Super Sensitive Trans badge models are not easily found. That's a gem in itself. Ludwig did not catalog this size, but it is a common family of drums. In recent years many have called the 20/13/16 Super Beats having merged a Super Classic 22/13/16 and a Downbeat 20/12/14 from the catalogs. Enjoy the new to you kit. Pics if you can please.

Mike
Thanks for your help!! It's kinda a weird one. Pics are on this thread from Reverb if it may help you determine any facts or help answer any of my questions about being bought together. Thanks again!
 

K.O.

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Transition from the "Transition" badge to the pre serial Keystone was around October of 1960. Certainly at around that time there were mixed badge sets were sold. The badge likely wasn't a big deal to most buyers of the time. It was also very common for folks to buy a set without a floor tom and then add one later on when they could afford to buy it. Or a music store might sell off an in stock drum from a set on the floor and then order in a matching replacement, in which case the eventual buyer bought all the drums at once and probably assumed they were made together.

The way Ludwig made drums didn't change in any substantial way just because the badge design was changed and the catalog outfits were just prepackaged combinations of the one type of drum they made so even if a set wasn't born together in the factory, or doesn't line up to a particular one of the few catalog combinations shouldn't detract from them in any real way as those details are primarily about dates and marketing, not the validity of a certain combination of drums as a musical instrument.
 

Jazzcrimes

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I don’t mean to take this thread off track, so let me know if I should start a new thread?

Outside of the early 60s, how prevalent was it that these mixed kits came from the factory? clear and white interior shells, clear and graditone shells, white and graditone, etc. Similarly, kits where the shells are stamped 2 - 5 years apart.

I've always been confused when looking at these 60 - 70s mixed kits if they are pieced together or actually where sold from the factory this way.
 

JDA

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GlassGlitter

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Transition from the "Transition" badge to the pre serial Keystone was around October of 1960. Certainly at around that time there were mixed badge sets were sold. The badge likely wasn't a big deal to most buyers of the time. It was also very common for folks to buy a set without a floor tom and then add one later on when they could afford to buy it. Or a music store might sell off an in stock drum from a set on the floor and then order in a matching replacement, in which case the eventual buyer bought all the drums at once and probably assumed they were made together.

The way Ludwig made drums didn't change in any substantial way just because the badge design was changed and the catalog outfits were just prepackaged combinations of the one type of drum they made so even if a set wasn't born together in the factory, or doesn't line up to a particular one of the few catalog combinations shouldn't detract from them in any real way as those details are primarily about dates and marketing, not the validity of a certain combination of drums as a musical instrument.
Thank you for the info..
 


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