Mark Guiliana

drums1225

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Chris Dave "loses the beat"? That's ridiculous. Maybe you could say, "What Chris Dave plays is beyond my understanding", or "his vocabulary is outside my comfort zone", or "his phrasing is too adventurous", but saying he loses the beat is laughable and couldn't be farther from accurate.


 

Ian S

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Personally,, I do sometimes allow myself to utter disparaging condemnations of various musicians, but I try to reserve it for the privacy of my outhouse after beers.

What I will say is that MG and MG are my two favorite currently active drummers. Muchas Gracias, Marcus Gilmore and Mark Giuliana. To me, these two are totally inspiring and at the pinnacle. Keeping jazz, and orbits outside of definitive genres of music, alive and well.
 
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RIDDIM

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You said that Chris has been the biggest influence of the last thirty years for anyone in the groove/hip hop/jazz scene, maybe it's true for those drummers who played r&b/soul/hip hop (and Mark does not belong to this category) but not to those who played jazz. Don't get me wrong, Chris can play jazz divinely, but i think you don't know Mark Guiliana enough if you say that Chris Dave has been his biggest inspiration.
- You haven't noticed a lot of cats playing swing patterns incorporating swing using the first and last nites of groups or 5, or 7? His innovations are part of the vocabulary. Like D Parks, he took what Tony began to explore and went further with it.
 

E.L.

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So much verified knowledge in this thread. Oh wow.
:icon_e_biggrin:
Guys c'mon... Bickering about someone else's influences. It's not up to you to decide if it's so or not.
Mark Guiliana has never mentioned Chris Dave as a source of inspiration, hence YES the knowledge is very well verified.
He grew up studying and playing jazz and at some point incorporating electronic music in his playing, he was much more influenced by Squarepusher and Aphex Twin than by Chris Dave. It's a fact not just my point of view.
 

Markkuliini

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Mark Guiliana has never mentioned Chris Dave as a source of inspiration, hence YES the knowledge is very well verified.
He grew up studying and playing jazz and at some point incorporating electronic music in his playing, he was much more influenced by Squarepusher and Aphex Twin than by Chris Dave. It's a fact not just my point of view.
Now you're assuming he has and is telling everything on those interviews that you have happened to read or hear.

You have freedom to say that to your in knowledge he's influenced by this or that. But trying to pass that as a verified data is not going to fly. ESPECIALLY when we know how many influences people have. So assuming that someone hasn't been influenced by someone else, just because the name isn't mentioned is just odd. People usually mention their top 5 or whatever.

Let's move on. You guys disagree. That's it and it's ok. But it's futile to continue. B)
 

E.L.

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Now you're assuming he has and is telling everything on those interviews that you have happened to read or hear.

You have freedom to say that to your in knowledge he's influenced by this or that. But trying to pass that as a verified data is not going to fly. ESPECIALLY when we know how many influences people have. So assuming that someone hasn't been influenced by someone else, just because the name isn't mentioned is just odd. People usually mention their top 5 or whatever.

Let's move on. You guys disagree. That's it and it's ok. But it's futile to continue. B)
I'm not assuming....in various interviews he has been asked several times over the years which drummers have influenced him and Chris Dave was never mentioned, therefore, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, it's a verified data. We certainly know how many influencese people have, but if in 20 years of interviews you never mentioned a specific name (but you always mention other ones), i think this can pass as a verified data.
 

Markkuliini

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I'm not assuming....in various interviews he has been asked several times over the years which drummers have influenced him and Chris Dave was never mentioned, therefore, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, it's a verified data. We certainly know how many influencese people have, but if in 20 years of interviews you never mentioned a specific name (but you always mention other ones), i think this can pass as a verified data.
Sure sure.
Now onwards. :salute:
 

drumstuff66

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Useless and OT: Several years ago Gadd mentioned admiring both of them. Mark Guiliana shared this on his FB page in Sept 2013:


Ok, back to the fun....
 

bjisteve

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I haven't really listened to Chris Dave before, but listening to the clips posted here, it's pretty obvious to me he's a direct descendant of Billy Cobham and Mike Clark (and probably others I'm not familiar with), which places him squarely in "The Tradition". And he,and Gilmore, and Guiliana are doing what all the originators before them have done - find a new way to play the music that reflects their lives and their reality, while potentially pissing off the elders who complain about keeping the tradition "pure". Good for them. I'm a fan.
 

drums1225

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What some are missing here is that Chris Dave was strongly influenced by hip-hop producer J. Dilla, who famously turned off the quantize feature on his drum machine when programming hip hop beats, and intentionally placed notes slightly off the grid. This "drunk drummer" style has turned out to be a rhythmic innovation that has become a part of the language of modern day jazz/hip hop/r&b/neo-soul/funk drummers including Eric Harland, Chris Dave, Nate Smith, ?uestlove, etc.

I've played some recordings of these "non-quantized" Dilla-esque grooves for musicians I work with, and several of them are very uncomfortable with them, because it doesn't fit into the "grid" they've been accustomed to. I'd imagine plenty of people here would feel similarly. Personally, I welcome the innovation, dig the feel, and understand where it's coming from, even if I haven't fully internalized it to the point where I can seamlessly and authentically incorporate it into my playing.
 

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The fact is: there isn't a single Mark's song where you can say there's a Chris Dave influence, even if you go back to the Heernt days.

What i didn't like about the last couple of years is that looks like Mark has completely stopped developing his sound, there's no more research, he's not taking "risks" anymore.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Both of them are killer players whom I admire and both have similar styles but their own unique voices. But if you think Chris Dave can't keep a beat, you are sorely mistaken (and yes, that is Jojo Mayer with a front row seat!). The guy is a groove monster. And that right hand is smokin':


Mark is a monster in his own right:

 
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E.L.

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Nobody in his right mind would have any doubts about Chris Dave's abilities, both of them are GREAT and innovative drummers in their own way.
 

Rik_Everglade

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Dilla's beats are great. Chris Dave's right hand is awesome. But one huge difference; one is musical, and the other isn't. There is a point of diminishing returns when considering how far before, on or after a beat one can play before it just doesn't work. I don't generally see drummers stepping all over somebody's awesome solo. When an avid musician does this, they usually aren't asked back. Maybe that's why he's always on different gigs? Billy Sheehan passed through every band permutation too. Awesome chops. Sure.
 

drums1225

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Dilla's beats are great. Chris Dave's right hand is awesome. But one huge difference; one is musical, and the other isn't. There is a point of diminishing returns when considering how far before, on or after a beat one can play before it just doesn't work. I don't generally see drummers stepping all over somebody's awesome solo. When an avid musician does this, they usually aren't asked back. Maybe that's why he's always on different gigs? Billy Sheehan passed through every band permutation too. Awesome chops. Sure.
So, first you claim Chris Dave "loses the beat" (he doesn't), and is "constantly recovering from mistakes" (uh, no), and now you somehow have a better grasp on musicality and the placement of subdivisions than Chris Dave, who is literally known (and hired) for his other-worldly command of time, rhythm, and groove (both on and off the "grid"), not to mention his ground-breaking creativity, originality, and awe-inspiring facility on the drums.

Then you continue by saying his comping 'steps all over somebody's solo' (link, please), and, not to be outdone by any of your previous ridiculous statements, you assert that, because he plays with many different people, it may be because "he isn't asked back". This is where it became clear that one of three things is true: 1) You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, 2) You're trolling, or 3) Both.

Listen to Robert Glasper's "Double Booked" or check out Robert Glasper with Chris Dave - North Sea Jazz Festival 2019 and then come back and tell us with a straight face that anything you've said holds a drop of water. By the way, for some clearly "non-musical" reason, Glasper (who can hire anyone he wants) keeps "asking him back", as did Mint Condition, Kenny Garrett, and Meshell Ndegeocello, among others. Oh yeah, the podium at the Grammy Awards asked him back, too (2 time winner, 5 time nominee).

Whatever the case, people have different tastes and Chris Dave may not be your cup of tea, but objectively, he is at the forefront of the styles he plays and is held in the highest regard by his peers.
 

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I’ve seen him play, he is pretty good. He has his own style that works very well with electronic music as well.
He used to be Jojo Mayer’s student.
 


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