Mij madness

[chopfuey]

Why in the hell are the prices on vintage mij kits with vertical grain luan shells constructed poorly with lousy glue and even nails sometimes getting too near the cost of actual drums? What am I missing?

 

[Tama CW]

Why in the hell are the prices on vintage mij kits with vertical grain luan shells constructed poorly with lousy glue and even nails sometimes getting too near the cost of actual drums? What am I missing?

Asking prices are sometimes up there. Actually getting them is another story.

The very best and pristine original MIJ kits CAN certainly reach or exceed the prices of altered, molested, or "holy" professional grade kits from the 60's and 70's.
But the vast majority of the MIJ kits nearly always fail to get anywhere near close to identically conditioned pro level, made in USA vintage kits. Asking prices don't matter.....only selling prices.

A good, clean quality and useful MIJ 4 piece shell pack might fetch up to $350-$500. Getting more than that is a stretch unless you have a rare finish or immaculate condition. Now go find a similar
Ludwig, Rogers, Gretsch, or Slingerland in "clean" condition for that same amount.

 

[chopfuey]

Asking prices are sometimes up there. Actually getting them is another story.

The very best and pristine original MIJ kits CAN certainly reach or exceed the prices of altered, molested, or "holy" professional grade kits from the 60's and 70's.
But the vast majority of the MIJ kits nearly always fail to get anywhere near close to identically conditioned pro level, made in USA vintage kits. Asking prices don't matter.....only selling prices.

A good, clean quality and useful MIJ 4 piece shell pack might fetch up to $350-$500. Getting more than that is a stretch unless you have a rare finish or immaculate condition. Now go find a similar
Ludwig, Rogers, Gretsch, or Slingerland in "clean" condition for that same amount.

Valid point to a point. Haha. I always keep an eye out for a one up one down slingerland kit for my girlfriend. That’s why I’ve noticed. I do find them in the 600 range on occasion but not in colors/finish that she likes. Haha. That’s the other question I wonder about. Why are slingerland kits (with the exception of radiokings) so undervalued compared to other American made vintage drums? I own a purple pearl sparkle 3 ply shell kit with re rings that is fantastic. EVery bit as good as The equivalent shells of other American companies. Is it just because of the problem of finding replacement parts when you need them?
if not , I don’t get it.

 

[yetanotherdrummer]

I think that part of what drives the prices of MIJ drum sets is nostalgia among the boomer generation. Me, I had a MIJ set when I was starting out in the 60's and you couldn't pay me to have another one. In my opinion they were mostly junk.

 

[Tama CW]

Valid point to a point. Haha. I always keep an eye out for a one up one down slingerland kit for my girlfriend. That’s why I’ve noticed. I do find them in the 600 range on occasion but not in colors/finish that she likes. Haha. That’s the other question I wonder about. Why are slingerland kits (with the exception of radiokings) so undervalued compared to other American made vintage drums? I own a purple pearl sparkle 3 ply shell kit with re rings that is fantastic. EVery bit as good as The equivalent shells of other American companies. Is it just because of the problem of finding replacement parts when you need them?
if not , I don’t get it.

The Slingerland lag the other 3 major USA vintage brands probably because they sold out to the MIJ builders in the mid to later 1980's. While Rogers did as well, I think the quality of the Rogers and
Gretsch drums has always been a bit higher than the Ludwig and Slingerlands. The Ludwigs and Slingerlands both both got sloppy in the 60's as the Beatles stormed the world and both were pumping out
30K-50K drums per year. There wasn't nearly the same demand for the Rogers and Gretsch drums.....maybe because they cost more ??? Ringo and other famous period rock n' rollers gave the Ludwigs a permanent lift...and Ludwig never went away. That sort of leaves Slingerland as odd man you of the Big 4. The Slingerland parts aren't scarce....and probably like Ludwigs, easier to find than the Gretsch and Rogers 50's/60's/70's parts. So take advantage of the 20-35% price reduction on the Slingerlands while you can....it many not always be there.

 

[chopfuey]

The Slingerland lag the other 3 major USA vintage brands probably because they sold out to the MIJ builders in the mid to later 1980's. While Rogers did as well, I think the quality of the Rogers and
Gretsch drums has always been a bit higher than the Ludwig and Slingerlands. The Ludwigs and Slingerlands both both got sloppy in the 60's as the Beatles stormed the world and both were pumping out
30K-50K drums per year. There wasn't nearly the same demand for the Rogers and Gretsch drums.....maybe because they cost more ??? Ringo and other famous period rock n' rollers gave the Ludwigs a permanent lift...and Ludwig never went away. That sort of leaves Slingerland as odd man you of the Big 4. The Slingerland parts aren't scarce....and probably like Ludwigs, easier to find than the Gretsch and Rogers 50's/60's/70's parts. So take advantage of the 20-35% price reduction on the Slingerlands while you can....it many not always be there.

I used to own a Rogers holiday kit One up one down configuration. Cool kit. The swivomatic hardware was definitely better than slingerland hardware but I didn’t find the shells to be of higher quality. Different bearing edges but I wouldn’t say better shells. Slingerland hardware was just crap. I actually threw it out piece by piece as I replaced it. Aside from the bass drum spurs and brackets and lugs it’s all been replaced. Kit is completely roadable because of that. Love the tone of their shells. Have probably a dozen or so different slingerland snares. Still thing their snares are bad ass. I should add , none of the replacement parts are slingerland parts. Before the internet you just couldn’t get slingerland parts. Dealing with slingerland was impossible. I don’t regret the non slingerland replacement parts. All of their stuff used to strip so easily.

 

[el_37]

The Slingerland lag the other 3 major USA vintage brands probably because they sold out to the MIJ builders in the mid to later 1980's. While Rogers did as well, I think the quality of the Rogers and
Gretsch drums has always been a bit higher than the Ludwig and Slingerlands. The Ludwigs and Slingerlands both both got sloppy in the 60's as the Beatles stormed the world and both were pumping out
30K-50K drums per year. There wasn't nearly the same demand for the Rogers and Gretsch drums.....maybe because they cost more ??? Ringo and other famous period rock n' rollers gave the Ludwigs a permanent lift...and Ludwig never went away. That sort of leaves Slingerland as odd man you of the Big 4. The Slingerland parts aren't scarce....and probably like Ludwigs, easier to find than the Gretsch and Rogers 50's/60's/70's parts. So take advantage of the 20-35% price reduction on the Slingerlands while you can....it many not always be there.

I wouldn't say Gretsch drums were higher quality than Ludwig and Slingerland- I feel Gretsch had the worst plating out of the 4, frequently are encountered with wrap lift/shrink issues and their brackets and mounts leave a lot to be desired- even by the standards of the day. Add in snare bed and throw off issues as the icing on the cake.

Rogers seems to be really popular with collectors and for you car buffs the brand adherents are like Mopar guys- they are so rabid about the brand that the prices stay high even though more people are into other brands.

RB Gretsch has a cult built around "jazz or bop" sizes- but notice sets without 18" bass drums or 14" floor toms don't bring much excitement- to bring the car guy analogy back it is much like British Sports Cars are a huge expensive deal- but anything else made by them is pretty much ignored with the exception of the Land Rover.

For our analogy proposes Camco can be Land Rover.....slightly mysterious, really expensive and on the rare side.

Ludwig always seems like Chevrolet to me- you can walk across the USA on them- and some people just love to hate them due to that popularity. Slingerland always felt like Buick/Olds/Pontiac to me- similar but different than Chevrolet- but demand and interest lags with the masses.

Sorry if your a Ford guy.....

 

[jptrickster]

I lv mij stencil kits. Some of the wraps were very cool. I did my first gig on one back in the 60’s early 70’s they served me well. As mentioned above the sentimental value is strong. Whatever the market will bare

 

[Pat A Flafla]

I love mine and I'm glad I got them for a song before that MD article drove interest and prices up. I forget what issue it was but it seemed like an overnight price jump coincided with its publication.

When I say "for a song," I mean probably $50 each for some snares, and a whole Majestic kit for $60 (though it needed some work).

 

[steambent]

Got $800 for this one but 8 lug drums, 20-12-14 with matching snare and original heads. Now when I took the heads and hoops off I could have crushed the shells like a pop can like most MIJ drums.

 

[chopfuey]

I wouldn't say Gretsch drums were higher quality than Ludwig and Slingerland- I feel Gretsch had the worst plating out of the 4, frequently are encountered with wrap lift/shrink issues and their brackets and mounts leave a lot to be desired- even by the standards of the day. Add in snare bed and throw off issues as the icing on the cake.

Rogers seems to be really popular with collectors and for you car buffs the brand adherents are like Mopar guys- they are so rabid about the brand that the prices stay high even though more people are into other brands.

RB Gretsch has a cult built around "jazz or bop" sizes- but notice sets without 18" bass drums or 14" floor toms don't bring much excitement- to bring the car guy analogy back it is much like British Sports Cars are a huge expensive deal- but anything else made by them is pretty much ignored with the exception of the Land Rover.

For our analogy proposes Camco can be Land Rover.....slightly mysterious, really expensive and on the rare side.

Ludwig always seems like Chevrolet to me- you can walk across the USA on them- and some people just love to hate them due to that popularity. Slingerland always felt like Buick/Olds/Pontiac to me- similar but different than Chevrolet- but demand and interest lags with the masses.

Sorry if your a Ford guy.....

Love the analogies. Haha. So leedy is like what? Studebaker! Haha
dw feels like Nissan to me.
mapex is tough,,,, maybe Kia

 

[BennyK]

Kitsch is a lucrative market . My teenage guitar buddies couldn't wait to step up from from their Teiscoes and Silvertones back in the 60's . I'll bet those same guitars today are worth a lot more . Same goes for drums, kitchen appliances , black light Elvis portraits , lawn ornaments , green glass Coca Cola stubbies , etc.

I have a green oyster Tempro kit ( 22 13 16 ) downstairs waiting for the day when I can obscenely capitalize on them.... or just keep them around for a fuzzy and warm feeling . Included is a cheesy collapsing ( not collapsible) throne with a gold sparkle seat . Original fiber cases too !!

 

[rikkrebs]

I flip quite a few MIJ kits a year and usually get 40-50% of what I would get for a similar configuration in an American made kit.

The only one I’ve kept was this Dixie kit that my middle son wants.

 

[Big Beat]

The prices for MIJ drums have gone up to the level where you remember American drums being priced at just a few years ago. But have you tried getting a clean, unmolested American set at those prices today? Not going to be easy, because they have gone up too. Everything has gone up. But it has always been more or less proportionate. When you could get Ludwigs and Slingerlands for $500, the MIJs were $200. Now that the better MIJs have reached $500, the USA stuff is routinely priced over $1K.

 

[Rob G.]

- asking not equal getting
- "actual drums" prices keep going up
- prices of everything keep going up
- nostalgia
- people realizing MIJ drums can sound pretty darn good
- on-line hype
- clueless sellers
- clueless buyers

I'm probably missing a few, but pick as many of those reasons as you want.

 

[Black Cat 8]

Kitsch is a lucrative market . My teenage buddies couldn't wait to step up from from their Teiscoes and Silvertones back in the 60's . I'll bet those same guitars today are worth a lot more . Same goes for drums, kitchen appliances , black light Elvis portraits , lawn ornaments , green glass Coca Cola stubbies , etc.

I have a green oyster Tempro kit ( 22 13 16 ) downstairs waiting for the day when I can capitalize on them obscenely .... or just keep them for that warm fuzzy feeling . Included is a cheesy collapsing ( not collapsible) throne with a gold sparkle seat . Original fiber cases too !!

Love the Silvertone stories. I believe the drums were made at Pearl and the guitars were made by Gibson. And I do remember reading that to fullfill orders that some guitars were pulled out of there premium stuff to fill the orders and some people have very valuable guitars and do not even know it.

 

[davezedlee]

I think that part of what drives the prices of MIJ drum sets is nostalgia among the boomer generation. Me, I had a MIJ set when I was starting out in the 60's and you couldn't pay me to have another one. In my opinion they were mostly junk.

... absolutely

all the FB MIJ groups that i get innundated with constantly have "reminds me of youth" photos

they are what they are....

 

[steambent]

As already mentioned EVERYTHING has gone up the last 2 years, just not percussion items. Let’s just hope no more banks fail.

 

[retrosonic]

To me, the only cool think about the MIJs is that some of the wraps (only a few) are colors that you couldnt find anywhere else. There is that purple/black sparkle on the "Noble" branded MIJs that is just great looking, also a red/white oyster that I havent ever seen anywhere else. But you also have to pay attention to quality. The early MIJs were junk, the later 60s ones and the 70s were actually pretty good quality.

 

[chopfuey]

Kitsch is a lucrative market . My teenage buddies couldn't wait to step up from from their Teiscoes and Silvertones back in the 60's . I'll bet those same guitars today are worth a lot more . Same goes for drums, kitchen appliances , black light Elvis portraits , lawn ornaments , green glass Coca Cola stubbies , etc.

I have a green oyster Tempro kit ( 22 13 16 ) downstairs waiting for the day when I can obscenely capitalize on them.... or just keep them around for a fuzzy and warm feeling . Included is a cheesy collapsing ( not collapsible) throne with a gold sparkle seat . Original fiber cases too !!