Mixing Istanbul and K Cons?

drummers_need_coffee.exe

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Anybody think this kind of cymbal combination works or doesn't work? I'm playing around with it a bit. I think Sabians/Zildjians are fair game to mix and Bos/Agop/Meh are all fair game to throw together, but are the big American companies too far from their roots to sound right paired with the modern day Turkish stuff?

Disclaimer: I know this is 100% subjective and the right answer is as always "play whatever you like."
 

Bongo Brad

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Try adding just one Turkish cymbal to your Z lineup & see. I've had luck doing that. I like having that one sound different while the others play nice together.
 

JDA

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Straight K line Dark Medium mixes well with old Ks; they're like brothers. AK Con series not sure which old tradition they were supposed to be or took inspiration from. Maybe old K Constantinoples -> coming from the Hi Bell Series. -> AK Constantinople series were never clear to me owned a bunch haven't played one in a long time.
Istanbuls I had my time with them Didn't last.
Old Ks
Bosphorus
Sometimes mix a New K with the old Ks
Bosphorus go out all on their own. hats right left -no mix.
I can mix the Zildjians

Unlike the "hey man, just play it, man" Which I call the the Tommy Chong approach. ; ) i know what you're talking about.
Mixing the Bosphorus with Old Ks isn't very satisfactory (meaning: worth it) . Old K hihats with Bosphorus Rides is ok good.
I know what you're talking about.

brands within themselves sometimes overlap (and underlap) when mixed with other brands. You know when you play them (whatever you have) whether it's a go or no go.
 
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kluger

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Yes! I am playing 4 kinds of cymbals and really enjoy the way they work together.
K Con 14" hats
22" Istanbul Agop SE Jazz ride
20" Meinl Trash Crash
16" Paiste Traditional
I find them all to have a trashiness to them that I really like. May sound crazy but I have a blast playing them.
 

multijd

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To me it’s always about the individual characteristics of the cymbals and what I’m trying to do with them and get out of them. With this isolated time I’ve been going through alot more of my cymbal stash (Old K, Kcon, Agop, Mehmet, Bosphorus, A’s, Sabian HH, Paiste, Wuhan) and playing them in the same room with the same drums and recording them. I have some specialized cymbals for classical or show type work and a few that are geared toward amplified scenarios but the bulk of my cymbals are acoustic music (Jazz) Instrument’s. First of all they are all crashes and rides. Even the 17” Mehmet Turk is a ride. And the flat rides are going to be “crashed”. So there has to be a flexibility in the cymbal. The way I hit it is a major factor in achieving this. I can’t crash a flat ride with the same stroke as a 17” “crash” or a 22” sizzle “ride”. For me this directly relates to my training as a “percussionist” where you are often asked to play very disparate instruments but still achieve a blended and balanced sound. Here are some of the things I listen for in selecting cymbals for a set up but I will qualify these by saying the specific instrumentation, musical style and the room will affect these (if I were actually leaving my home studio).
1) I want a spread of pitches so that the melodic character of the instruments can be utilized.
2) The amount of wash/articulation is important. Sometimes a really dry cymbal, like a flat ride, will seem out of place with washy sounds. But again this depends on context and the choice of when to use that dramatic change.
3) Rivets in more than one cymbal seem to bind the sounds together.
4) A sensitivity and awareness to what the cymbal “means” in the music. Some cymbals are sound effects while others are rhythm devices.
5) I like to have them organized efficiently so they are ease to use, comfortable to reach, not impeding each other or any other parts of the setup. So for me no extreme angles or radical height or reach variations.
JB
 

Neal Pert

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There are no rules, only jerks trying to tell you there are rules.

You can be all matchy, like me, or you can have cymbals from every brand. No one can stop you. Some models will clash, but you can pair any brand with any brand and, if you have a clear sense of the sound you're going for and how the different things fit together, you'll be fine.
 

JDA

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There are no rules, only jerks trying to tell you there are rules.
There's one huge rule.

Has to be the sound you want and sound good to You. That's a huge rule.
adhered to by any common sense person I'd think.

i think you meant to use the word "judgments".
 
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Neal Pert

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There's one huge rule.

Has to be the sound you want and sound good to You. That's a huge rule.
adhered to by any common sense person I'd think.

i think you meant to use the word "judgments".
Well, i think I said that when I said "you can pair any brand with any brand and, if you have a clear sense of the sound you're going for and how the different things fit together, you'll be fine."

For years before I let my agitation get to me I played an EAK Light Ride, a Bosphorus Masters Crash/Ride, and 14" Agop Mel hi hats. That was a perfect set of cymbals.
 

JDA

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For me it's depending on the band.... Sometimes the band doesn't have time for cymbals..(for me noodling around)..(and listening to myself) ..They just want the beat and they want it Now. It's best there that I take a matching set preferably new.
Then for when I have a little more of 'my own time' I can take my hybrid hot rod mixes.
 
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Tracktuary

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For years before I let my agitation get to me I played an EAK Light Ride, a Bosphorus Masters Crash/Ride, and 14" Agop Mel hi hats. That was a perfect set of cymbals.
So perfect that you sold them?
 

bongomania

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Apart from the usual "if it sounds good" or "if you like it" whatever lines, I actually choose to have a mix of different types of tones around the kit. First I identify what kind of sounds I want, then I find examples of those sounds that have a pleasing harmonic relationship. So I would totally mix K Con and Isty, if each one had a specific desired sound, and if the collection together sounded harmonically pleasant, like steps in a chord.
 

dogmanaut

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The quick answer is... it depends. I personally like quite a bit of contrast in my cymbal setups, and so mixing brands makes as much sense to me as mixing different sizes or lines within a brand. You just go with whatever works. That said, too much contrast and things can obviously start to get ugly, so sometimes it’s easier to stay within slightly narrow parameters like the same (or at least related) brands.

Very broadly speaking, I think that 5-year-old mentioned above knows what’s up: Zildjian and Bosphorus do play well together, maybe more so than either brand would with some Istanbul pies.

That said, I’ve got a K Custom Dark Complex prototype that could hang with the trashiest Agops, and as I’ve been digging through my stash to put together a new cymbal setup recently (just out of boredom during quarantine, because why not?), I stumbled on a really nice pairing with a set of 14” Mehmet MC Jazz hats and a 20” Crash of Doom.

So... yes maybe? Try it out.
 
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Seb77

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In this context I would be the one to ask if you can always recognize the brand/series by listening to a single cymbal.

I only have one KCOn, so I have to mix it up:
20" KCon mtl, 18" "Turkish" Trad. crash. I like an 18" K Custom Dark crash a bit more by now, there is something to an all Z setup I find pleasing (if you listen to a lot of online soundfiles, you get an impression of an overall brand character.).

21" Impression Trad. proto, 20" KCon mtl - really low-pitched combo, but the KCon is still somehwat clean sounding. Perfect crash ride in a way, maybe a bit too "designed". The Impr. is all but perfect, more dirty/complex sounding, part design, part accident :)

I would include regular Ks here, mixed set-up I used over time:
20" Mehmet Trad, 17" K Dark crash thin
20" Agop mel, 17" K crash^
22"K Dark thin ride (unlathed mini-bell) , 20" Mehmet Trad. ^
 

Old PIT Guy

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Shop with your eyes, shop with your ears. It's only money. It helps to play with your eyes closed. Then you're not jarred if you see Paiste ink on this and then (oh the horror!) Sabian ink on that over there.

I think mass media advertisement and player endorsement has a lot to do with the prevalence of brand reliance / allegiance because that's the intended conditioning. If you're aligning your logos for pictures you've likely been affected by it.
 

jb78

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I’ll join the chorus of people saying there are no rules, up to and including mixing brands (most recently I’ve been jamming with Istanbul hats, a Bosphorus ride, and a Paiste ride). However, I’ll more specifically add that I have mixed K Con and Istanbul to great effect. I wouldn’t give it a second thought.
 

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