More recording ?'s What mikes are people using ?

Neal Pert

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I keep it pretty simple:

Kick: RE20
Snare top:: SM57
Snare bottom: Neumann km184
OH #1: Neumann km184 or Soundelux 195 (Centered over kick drum pedal beater at 5’)
OH #2: Coles 4038 (About 1’ behind my right shoulder and 1’ above it)

I rarely have a rack tom or hihat, and use only one cymbal on the right (ribbon) side at a time, to keep this setup (and my playing) uncluttered. So that informs the number of mics. And sometimes all I need is that ribbon. Depends on dynamics of the tune.

All the above thru some combination of CAPI, Heritage and Neve pre’s into a Metric Halo 2882
You call that simple? :D
 

Tornado

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I’d also add that an sm58 can sound really good on a kick drum.
It's said that Chad Smith's kick on BSSM was mic'd with an SM57. I think it sounds incredible on that record. The missing component for the rest of us is the incredible engineer that captured it!
 

fishaa

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You call that simple? :D
Haha. Kinda. Yeah... Relative to what a lot of other people do, using more drums and micing every inch of the drum kit.

My philosophy on recording drums is more about capturing how the drummer sounds in the room.... and mixing in whatever close mics as needed.

Again, often the best sound comes from the ribbon mic behind me, which is getting the whole picture, and then adding just a little of the kick or bottom snare to taste.
 

scaramanga

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Small room. My drum mix will generally lean strongly on the overheads, a pair of Lauten Audio LA-120s (shockingly good price/performance ratio), Shure KSM32 on kick, Shure SM98s on every other drum, and a CAD E-100 mounted off the drum stool to catch the snare side and kick batter. If I have open channels I might add a crappy old mic for flavor.

Sounds like this:
 

Neal Pert

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Haha. Kinda. Yeah... Relative to what a lot of other people do, using more drums and micing every inch of the drum kit.

My philosophy on recording drums is more about capturing how the drummer sounds in the room.... and mixing in whatever close mics as needed.

Again, often the best sound comes from the ribbon mic behind me, which is getting the whole picture, and then adding just a little of the kick or bottom snare to taste.
I saw the Neumann under the snare drum and the Coles and that was what made me think. Sounds like a very cool way of doing things
 

MusicianMagic

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Thanks yet again. I'm in a rental house and pretty nervous about too much treatment and altering this too much and paying when I leave. I'm actually looking for an inexpensive house to buy here in TX, so I'm excited about that. . So I'm going to suffer thru this for a while until come up with some solutions. Which include some large gobos and bass traps. I have heard much beter things about the WA14's than the 84's. I think the extra 300 per pair will be a much better investment.

I'm happy to see guys using the Beyer here, I've used 57's for 40 years. Yes, I know all about them. But I'll choose something else if I can :cool: Thanks again for all the comments. It's funny, something I played on recently was mixed by Justin Stanley. If I could get the sound going in that he gets coming out. man, Id be one happy mf.

Great drum recordings begin & end with the room. Many studios have had a reputation just because of their room & drum sound. Drums have so many issues you don't face with other instruments. I can record guitars, acoustic or electric, horns, piano and just a couple of panels to control reflections & phase issues. But with a drum kit, you want the room sound (hence room mics) which adds the wanted depth as drums don't have a single sound source like other instruments. Even if you only close mic, having some reflections still pull depth. That's why a drum booth is not made totally dead.
Still you have multiple mics, facing various angles & even the drum kit itself reflects sound.
Your low ceiling causes short reflections which can create phasing issues, short delays, then larger delays as those waves continue to reflect around, then bass waves bending around your space, all while those multiple mics are picking up those sounds bounce around, at different times both in & out of phase. That's just the ceiling, without getting to the rest of the room, direction of all the mics & what's within their pickup pattern.

I would at least add some foam acoustic tile to your ceiling over the kit. You can attach them using T-pins which you can find at a sewing store or department. They make a very small hole that is easy to cover up when you move.
you can spend many thousands on mics & recording gear but if the room sucks, that is what you capture. But if the room is great, you could use nothing but SM57's & SM58's & a cheap recorder or interface (I've done it many times) and get a great sound. I once recorded a Americana band at an old abandoned studio with my Otari 8-track tape recorder & mainly cheaper mics. The studio's gear was all gone but the room was untouched. I mixed it down with virtually no effects. Everyone was very impressed. But I had little to do with it (just being honest) it was the room that made it sound great. We did this because they wanted an All Analog recording & booking a studio for two weeks was not in their budget. We rented the old studio for a month for like $750. I didn't bring expensive mics because I didn't think it was very secure. I brought my Otari home after every session.
 

Beefsurgeon

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A lot of great info so far! One mic that punches well above its weight is the CAD M179. Someone on a recording forum keyed me into them a few years ago. They are an inexpensive LDC, with continuously adjustable polar pattern--very useful for dialing out bleed from other sources.

They work really well as overheads, but they just totally kill as tom mics. I've tried every common dynamic mic on toms, and I always come back to the M179--they just seem to capture the whole character of the drum in a flattering way.

They're cheap, they're made overseas, and they don't look cool--but the sound is real.
 

kallen49

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I laugh at this myself, but, Im amazed at how well this works,

one SM57: 4” above the 20” kick and 12” in front, 8” to the right side if behind the kick.

Plugged into a 10 year old Roland interface into a 10 year old Mac using garageband (or Reaper)

My brother mixes my exported mp3 into the other tracks using Studio One. He also plays guitar.
My daughter sings. Example at link below
 

jaymandude

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Great drum recordings begin & end with the room. Many studios have had a reputation just because of their room & drum sound. Drums have so many issues you don't face with other instruments. I can record guitars, acoustic or electric, horns, piano and just a couple of panels to control reflections & phase issues. But with a drum kit, you want the room sound (hence room mics) which adds the wanted depth as drums don't have a single sound source like other instruments. Even if you only close mic, having some reflections still pull depth. That's why a drum booth is not made totally dead.
Still you have multiple mics, facing various angles & even the drum kit itself reflects sound.
Your low ceiling causes short reflections which can create phasing issues, short delays, then larger delays as those waves continue to reflect around, then bass waves bending around your space, all while those multiple mics are picking up those sounds bounce around, at different times both in & out of phase. That's just the ceiling, without getting to the rest of the room, direction of all the mics & what's within their pickup pattern.

I would at least add some foam acoustic tile to your ceiling over the kit. You can attach them using T-pins which you can find at a sewing store or department. They make a very small hole that is easy to cover up when you move.
you can spend many thousands on mics & recording gear but if the room sucks, that is what you capture. But if the room is great, you could use nothing but SM57's & SM58's & a cheap recorder or interface (I've done it many times) and get a great sound. I once recorded a Americana band at an old abandoned studio with my Otari 8-track tape recorder & mainly cheaper mics. The studio's gear was all gone but the room was untouched. I mixed it down with virtually no effects. Everyone was very impressed. But I had little to do with it (just being honest) it was the room that made it sound great. We did this because they wanted an All Analog recording & booking a studio for two weeks was not in their budget. We rented the old studio for a month for like $750. I didn't bring expensive mics because I didn't think it was very secure. I brought my Otari home after every session.
Yep. All that. Why I've resisted doing this for so long. Ironically my family jut sold a house that would have made a great studio. But I'm just not interested in living where the house was..
 

RIDDIM

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Shure Beta 58 on snare batter, SM 57 below. SM 57s on toms at maybe a 30 degree angle, maybe 1 1/2" above the rims and aimed center head. AKG D 112 about 4 " in front of the intact bass drum resonant head. Sennheiser e 614 overheads. Presonus firewire interfaces.

2 examples:


 
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singleflammedmill

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Interface: Arturia AudioFuse 8pre + Behringer ADA8000
Overheads: Earthworks SR25 (2x)
Bass Drum 1: Shure Beta 52A with Earthworks KickPad KP1
Bass Drum 2: Audio Technica AT3035
Snare mic: Earthworks SR25 + Hosa Input Attenuator ATT-448
Tom mic: Shure Beta B56
Floor Tom mic: Electro-Voice RE20
Hi Hat mic: Shure SM81 + Shure SM57
Room mic: Audio Technica AT3035
Dirt mic: Shure SM57
http://instagr.am/p/CDE8vwnAQZ0/
 

dcrigger

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As others have written - a million ways of accomplishing this. But here's what I've been using - to add to your research....

I do have some alternates - but here is the turn to - always set-up - rig...

BD close - Sennheiser E602
BD Far - AKG C414
BD Woofer - home made from 6" woofer

SD Top - Shure SM57
SD Alt Top (I usually record both) - AKG 451
SD Bottom - AKG 414

Toms High/Mid/Floor - Sennheiser 421's

Overheads - Coles 4038's
Hi Hat - AKG C451B

Room - Earthworks TC25 (mono - as stereo room mics makes no sense in this small of a room)

I bought about half of these mics used - the 414's, the 421's...

Hope that helps...
 

scaramanga

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As others have written - a million ways of accomplishing this. But here's what I've been using - to add to your research....

I do have some alternates - but here is the turn to - always set-up - rig...

BD close - Sennheiser E602
BD Far - AKG C414
BD Woofer - home made from 6" woofer

SD Top - Shure SM57
SD Alt Top (I usually record both) - AKG 451
SD Bottom - AKG 414

Toms High/Mid/Floor - Sennheiser 421's

Overheads - Coles 4038's
Hi Hat - AKG C451B

Room - Earthworks TC25 (mono - as stereo room mics makes no sense in this small of a room)

I bought about half of these mics used - the 414's, the 421's...

Hope that helps...
A classicist!
 

dcrigger

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A classicist!
:) I guess so. I wish I could say it was some purposeful philosophy. Which would make sense from an investment standpoint - as these workhorse models have been in constant use for decades and as such really do hold their value. I would venture that most of these are still worth at least what I paid for them - even after 20 plus years for some of them.

But truth is it's a much more practical hodge-lodge than that. As someone who was doing sessions before owning any microphones - what I saw regularly in use in studios did provide a starting point for shopping. But basically it's been a long process that evolved over time and as it got redefined with new stuff, older mics often got repurposed into new roles.

A started out with some dynamics and my first condensers were a pair of used 451's - which I used constantly for overheads, guitars, acoustic piano, etc. As my needs developed to needing some kind of "real" vocal mic - that inspired the purchase of a pair of used 414's. No point for me at that point to just buy a vocal mic, when a pair would give me better piano mics, better (or least different) overheads) - better for horns or on sections.

Somewhere in there, I bought AKG D-112 - which for whatever reason never really worked for me in my room at the time - so that lead to the E602...

Toms had been various things over the years - I was writing reviews for Rhythm and Modern Recording magazines, so various mics came my way cheaply for awhile.

Then I closed my recording studio to everything except recording drums, recording myself. A change that warranted some investment in some mic pros and some examining the mic collection with just drums in mind. This didn't happen in a week, but over a number of months...

This is when I fell into trying the Coles as overheads - which I really liked, so bought a pair of those. And I'd always liked 421's on toms (an obvious workhorse in that role) - so over a couple of months, just stayed tuned into Ebay... waiting for reasonably priced, clean used ones to show up. Allowing me to snag 3 at real reasonable prices...

All of this, of course, with any sort of budget to speak of... studios can be complete and total money pits... and as a working player, money never grew on trees. So that inspired some of the casting... I mean, is a 414 a common first choice for a far BD mic. Not at all. (Though my research did come up with a few folks that just swore by it - that's actually what gave me the idea to try it.) So is it a U47 FET? No. But it works... and I already owned one. Actually two - thus putting the other one under the snare (which really isn't uncommon at all).

As for the 451 along with the 57 on the snare top. That also came from reading some article with some guy that loves small capsule condensers on the snare - but always runs a 57 along with it as insurance for when/if the condenser overloads and clips from an unexpectedly loud hit or two (the bulletproof 57 track is always there to fall back on). Which also reminded of all the TV dates in the 70/80's that I did - where a small capsule condenser is all they ever used on the snare.

The biggest change from the regular studio model to the remote session model was realizing that the client/artist/producer is rarely if ever there (even before Covid) to help tweak the sound to their liking. So besides going with some proven established choices like the 421's - I wanted to give the client downstream choices... thus the two top snare mics.... or the close-far-woofer choices. Most folks really only want or need two of those (close/far or close/woofer). But which pair... I just always send all three tracks - and they can mute/discard the one they don't want.

I was actually printing a second pair of overheads for a while (like the Earthworks) to offer up that choice - but I found every one I asked was just going with the Coles... so I kinda stopped doing that.

Anyway - sorry - rambling on... so there's my mic collection story... not that anyone really asked to hear it... :)
 

Browny

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Basic 2 mic setup here.

I’ve got an AKG 212 Perception as an overhead, on a boom positioned a few inches to the front right of my face when sitting and just above the height of my head. I’m using the -20db and flat response options.

I’m using a Sennheiser e602 on the kick. Right now it’s maybe 4” off the front head, more or less aimed at a point just below the centre of the head.
 

funkypoodle

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Nothing fancy, but it's the start of a collection. I'd love a SM57, but for now a Sennheiser e604 does the job surprisingly well. I shouldn't spend any more on mics until I get a higher-end sound card anyway...

overheads: (old-school) Shure SM81's
kick: Sennheiser e602 II
snare: Sennheiser e604
toms: Audix Fusion F10
floor: Audix Fusion F12

 

phdamage

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Thanks yet again. I'm in a rental house and pretty nervous about too much treatment and altering this too much and paying when I leave. I'm actually looking for an inexpensive house to buy here in TX, so I'm excited about that. . So I'm going to suffer thru this for a while until come up with some solutions. Which include some large gobos and bass traps. I have heard much beter things about the WA14's than the 84's. I think the extra 300 per pair will be a much better investment.

I'm happy to see guys using the Beyer here, I've used 57's for 40 years. Yes, I know all about them. But I'll choose something else if I can :cool: Thanks again for all the comments. It's funny, something I played on recently was mixed by Justin Stanley. If I could get the sound going in that he gets coming out. man, Id be one happy mf.

If you want to treat the ceiling on the cheap and not leaving yourself a headache to fix when you move out - buy a pack of 1" rigid fiberglass insulation from ATS (I think that would run you around $75), wrap each panel in burlap (they sell that, too, but can be had cheaper elsewhere - you could frame them first with cheap wood if you wanted to be a little fancier) and just pin the damn things to the ceiling. they are light and you could probably get them to stay with just a few screws. a little spackling when you move out and you'd be set. you could even reuse the panels at your new spot
 

jaymandude

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If you want to treat the ceiling on the cheap and not leaving yourself a headache to fix when you move out - buy a pack of 1" rigid fiberglass insulation from ATS (I think that would run you around $75), wrap each panel in burlap (they sell that, too, but can be had cheaper elsewhere - you could frame them first with cheap wood if you wanted to be a little fancier) and just pin the damn things to the ceiling. they are light and you could probably get them to stay with just a few screws. a little spackling when you move out and you'd be set. you could even reuse the panels at your new spot
 

jaymandude

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Thanks. I’ve got the free standing wall gobos but this week is the week to deal with the ceiling. Thanks for the info
 

scaramanga

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I mean, is a 414 a common first choice for a far BD mic. Not at all. (Though my research did come up with a few folks that just swore by it - that's actually what gave me the idea to try it.)
I swore by it!

Have you checked this out? :
 


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