Moving on From Zildjian? Thoughts!

D. B. Cooper

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I have a 24 K Light but I'd never use it for that band. I love recording with it though! It's gorgeous.

My main thing I break actually are sticks. I go through lots of those. Normally 2-4 every couple shows. Full time rim shots.

My heads are always in pretty good shape. I don't dent many.

And that's another reason I looked into Soultone and their artist deal, seems like they're very inexpensive. If only I dug the way they sound! haha

Or if you could dig through stacks of them to find the ones you like.
 

halldorl

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Meinl Byzance. Specifically the traditional line. I know I like how these sound, but they seem wildly more expensive than a Zildjian A counterpart. Does anyone know why some of the Turkish cymbals are so expensive and others simply aren't?
Here in Iceland Meinl are far cheaper then Zildjian and a bit cheaper than Sabian. Not to mention Paiste who are crazy expensive. It’s a puzzle why these price differences are so high between different parts of the world. Traditional and Foundry Reserve are my fav and go to series.
 

Houndog

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Great band ..Nothing I can add to what’s already been said .

Edit ....I’ve tried others but now have only Zildjian. FWIW
 
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SpinaDude

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OT, but Dude!!! Great playing. And the music is excellent. You guys compliment each other really well. Congratulations, man. It's not easy to build a group of people that can gel like that.

As far as the cymbals go, I too recommend the K Custom Hybrids. I have a 20" ride that I love.

And I second the Dream cymbals. Their Energy hi-hats are cutting without being too brash sounding.

I'd also look a little deeper into Sabian. With their Paragon, Legacy, Crescent and Artisan lines, they have a lot of different sounds to offer.

Like you, I've never been able to get behind Paiste cymbals. I think they usually sound great in recordings. But when I play them in person...ugh. It's like the aftertaste of diet soda. Purely personal preference of course.
 

dirtcity

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OT, but Dude!!! Great playing. And the music is excellent. You guys compliment each other really well. Congratulations, man. It's not easy to build a group of people that can gel like that.

As far as the cymbals go, I too recommend the K Custom Hybrids. I have a 20" ride that I love.

And I second the Dream cymbals. Their Energy hi-hats are cutting without being too brash sounding.

I'd also look a little deeper into Sabian. With their Paragon, Legacy, Crescent and Artisan lines, they have a lot of different sounds to offer.

Like you, I've never been able to get behind Paiste cymbals. I think they usually sound great in recordings. But when I play them in person...ugh. It's like the aftertaste of diet soda. Purely personal preference of course.
Hey thanks for the kind words! I really appreciate the positivity right now. As far as Sabian goes, I think I've dug the Paragons about as much as anything. Real classic Zildjian feel. The Legacy and Artisan I've played sound great, but I feel like they're a touch too thin for my normal every day playing.

I love when other people play Paistes! A friend of mine is an endorser and he sounds incredible. I wish I liked them when I played them.




For the record, I went and hit some Meinls today at my local shop. Granted they didn't have anything in my typical sizes, the only one that really spoke to me at all was a Byzance 18" medium thin crash. I feel like if it had been a 20" or so I would have really liked it.
 

SpinaDude

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And Dirt, if you're going through them that quickly, the Dream cymbals are much cheaper, and they sound great. I don't know if you've had a chance to try any.
 

dirtcity

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Thought I'd show everyone how my cymbals typically do break when they do. I feel like I made it sound like I go through a cymbal every few weeks, haha. It's really not that often, but it does happen. And here's what normally happens.

These are photos of my two favorite rides. All of these were along lathing lines, started small and spread even after I drilled the ends of the crack to try and stop them. The big chunk out of the one started as lathing line crack that spread and then I tried to cut out to make it stop spreading. Clearly it didn't work for long. Very rarely have I ever cracked an edge of a cymbal.

I tried to weigh them, but all I have is a normal scale. I can't seem to get an accurate reading on the weights. First time the one I got in 08 came out around 9.6 lbs, roughly 4354 grams. The second Medium came in around 8.3 lbs, roughly 3765 grams, and my K Light came in at 7.9 lbs, roughly 3583 grams.

But then I did a second and suddenly both As weighed the same 9.4 lbs/4263.77 G and the K weighed at 7.1 lbs 3220.51 G. So uh... not super helpful.
 

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cruddola

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Greetings y'all. Kind of a long read ahead, but I'm looking for some opinions here. Thinking about exploring new options.

So I've played Zildjian my entire 20 year drumming career. I always felt that all the sounds I wanted in my head were covered by either the A series or the Ks depending on my mood. For my main, very loud and very heavy, band, I'm all about huge A cymbals. 24", 20", 21", rides and 16" hats. For a lot of other stuff, I love my Ks... again, 24" ride and 16" hats, etc. I especially loved a pair of 70's 15" hats I let go and miss all the time. I also buy almost exclusively used cymbals and I love that pretty much any A I get is going to have the sound I want even if they differ a little bit individually within the same model.

So why even think about switching? Well for starters, I do NOT like the 24" Medium ride from the A redesign back in 2013. It's just not the same cymbal. It's thinner and doesn't have as pronounced of a ping anymore. I bought one new and it broke within a few months. I unfortunately do break cymbals. My technique is as good as the next guy's, but the music I play calls for some incredibly hard hitting so they do break from overuse. Hence why I buy used cymbals.

I did try a brief affair with Paiste 2002s and I just didn't get along with them. I think I'm a sucker for Turkish style cymbals. Which leads me to new options!

Looked into Soultone as I think I could get an artist deal and they wouldn't be all that expensive to get my ideal live setup. But I have to be honest, in the demos I've seen on Youtube, I'm not in love with anything I've heard. They seem very tinny and small sounding. Are the demos I've seen just bad? Anyone here play them and love them? There's no where that I know of, especially not in West Virginia, to go try some out for myself.

Looked at the Bosphorus traditional line. Seems somewhat in line with Zildjian A, but the sizes seem somewhat limited. And again, no where close to go try any.

Instanbul Agop. Dave Turncrantz of Russian Circles plays the Xist line and I love how they sound. Some of the cymbals seem very affordable, $200 big crashes, but the 24" ride is over $500 while the Zildjian Medium is $385ish. Xist isn't even totally hand hammered, they're more similar to Zildjian A, so why is this one cymbal so expensive? Once again, no where to be found near me.

Meinl Byzance. Specifically the traditional line. I know I like how these sound, but they seem wildly more expensive than a Zildjian A counterpart. Does anyone know why some of the Turkish cymbals are so expensive and others simply aren't?

So that's where I sit. I'd love to start a conversation about the various Turkish makers and people's real world experience hearing or playing them. Why do the prices seem to vary so much? Thanks!
 

cruddola

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Greetings y'all. Kind of a long read ahead, but I'm looking for some opinions here. Thinking about exploring new options.

So I've played Zildjian my entire 20 year drumming career. I always felt that all the sounds I wanted in my head were covered by either the A series or the Ks depending on my mood. For my main, very loud and very heavy, band, I'm all about huge A cymbals. 24", 20", 21", rides and 16" hats. For a lot of other stuff, I love my Ks... again, 24" ride and 16" hats, etc. I especially loved a pair of 70's 15" hats I let go and miss all the time. I also buy almost exclusively used cymbals and I love that pretty much any A I get is going to have the sound I want even if they differ a little bit individually within the same model.

So why even think about switching? Well for starters, I do NOT like the 24" Medium ride from the A redesign back in 2013. It's just not the same cymbal. It's thinner and doesn't have as pronounced of a ping anymore. I bought one new and it broke within a few months. I unfortunately do break cymbals. My technique is as good as the next guy's, but the music I play calls for some incredibly hard hitting so they do break from overuse. Hence why I buy used cymbals.

I did try a brief affair with Paiste 2002s and I just didn't get along with them. I think I'm a sucker for Turkish style cymbals. Which leads me to new options!

Looked into Soultone as I think I could get an artist deal and they wouldn't be all that expensive to get my ideal live setup. But I have to be honest, in the demos I've seen on Youtube, I'm not in love with anything I've heard. They seem very tinny and small sounding. Are the demos I've seen just bad? Anyone here play them and love them? There's no where that I know of, especially not in West Virginia, to go try some out for myself.

Looked at the Bosphorus traditional line. Seems somewhat in line with Zildjian A, but the sizes seem somewhat limited. And again, no where close to go try any.

Instanbul Agop. Dave Turncrantz of Russian Circles plays the Xist line and I love how they sound. Some of the cymbals seem very affordable, $200 big crashes, but the 24" ride is over $500 while the Zildjian Medium is $385ish. Xist isn't even totally hand hammered, they're more similar to Zildjian A, so why is this one cymbal so expensive? Once again, no where to be found near me.

Meinl Byzance. Specifically the traditional line. I know I like how these sound, but they seem wildly more expensive than a Zildjian A counterpart. Does anyone know why some of the Turkish cymbals are so expensive and others simply aren't?

So that's where I sit. I'd love to start a conversation about the various Turkish makers and people's real world experience hearing or playing them. Why do the prices seem to vary so much? Thanks!
Who says you gotta stick to one brand? I've got Sabian, Zildjian, Meinl, Paiste and Wuhan cymbals among others on the same drum kit. Partial to Paiste rides, Sabian and Zildjian crashes, Meinl hats and Wuhan effects cymbals. Same with drums. Currently messing with 26X18 1983 Yamaha Rock Tour Custom bass drum together with 1981 Tama Imperialstar (not the junk ones today) reinforced-ringed rack-toms and Premiere floor-toms with a Pearl bronze Piccolo snare. I beat on this kit more than my Slingerlands, Ludwigs, Tamas, Yamahas and Rogers kits!
 

jaymandude

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Thought I'd show everyone how my cymbals typically do break when they do. I feel like I made it sound like I go through a cymbal every few weeks, haha. It's really not that often, but it does happen. And here's what normally happens.

These are photos of my two favorite rides. All of these were along lathing lines, started small and spread even after I drilled the ends of the crack to try and stop them. The big chunk out of the one started as lathing line crack that spread and then I tried to cut out to make it stop spreading. Clearly it didn't work for long. Very rarely have I ever cracked an edge of a cymbal.

I tried to weigh them, but all I have is a normal scale. I can't seem to get an accurate reading on the weights. First time the one I got in 08 came out around 9.6 lbs, roughly 4354 grams. The second Medium came in around 8.3 lbs, roughly 3765 grams, and my K Light came in at 7.9 lbs, roughly 3583 grams.

But then I did a second and suddenly both As weighed the same 9.4 lbs/4263.77 G and the K weighed at 7.1 lbs 3220.51 G. So uh... not super helpful.
Do you ever check out Chris Dave ? If so, you probably know that a lot of that ozone ultra trash sound that is currently all the rage is from him asking Sabian to send him cracked cymbals. I can send some good links if you’re unfamiliar
 

dirtcity

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Do you ever check out Chris Dave ? If so, you probably know that a lot of that ozone ultra trash sound that is currently all the rage is from him asking Sabian to send him cracked cymbals. I can send some good links if you’re unfamiliar
I'm definitely unfamiliar. Sounds kind of neat though.
 

SpinaDude

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I had never heard of these guys before this morning.


I like the sound of these a lot. I don't think this set with its quiet shimmer and quick decay is what you're after. They sound a litle quiet for your music and style of play. But in the video it says they have 12 different cymbal lines. If, like me, you've never heard of them, they could be worth a look.
 

OldeEnglishD

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Band sounds great and so does your playing. I will echo a few others here in recommending Dream. I have several of their Contact series and to me they sound exactly like old A's. Really great cymbal at a lower price than Zildjian or Sabian. I have a mix of all 3 brands (Zildjian As, Sabian AA and Paragon, and Dream Contact) and find no difference in quality.
 

D. B. Cooper

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Maybe I'm missing it somewhere, but why don't you just find another lightly used 24" (pre-'13) Zildjian Medium?
 

dirtcity

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Maybe I'm missing it somewhere, but why don't you just find another lightly used 24" (pre-'13) Zildjian Medium?
That's been my go to, but they seem to be popping up less and less often. I was just trying to see if any other companies made something that I'd like that is still in production. I might just end up buying all the pre '13s I see and calling it a day.
 

dirtcity

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Band sounds great and so does your playing. I will echo a few others here in recommending Dream. I have several of their Contact series and to me they sound exactly like old A's. Really great cymbal at a lower price than Zildjian or Sabian. I have a mix of all 3 brands (Zildjian As, Sabian AA and Paragon, and Dream Contact) and find no difference in quality.
I actually forgot Dream made any cymbals that weren't thin and jazzy. I might look into that!

And thank you for the kind words!
 

CC Cirillo

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Powerful playing , brother!

If you’re going to lay it that heavy, perhaps you have three sets(?): The best for recording; the second best for live shows; and some disposable ones for rehearsals.

I do, however, want to urge you to move on from Zildjian and Sabian as well (except for the recording set.)

My and my wife’s Armenian forbearers have suffered enough. Please buy some Turkish cymbals.
 

drummerjohn333

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You might think I am totally crazy to recommend these, but my experience tells me to recommend you try to build a set of heavy Paiste 404s. They are warmer than the 505s and 2002s yet still have enough shimmer and cut to be heard in a loud mix. While I am sure they can crack, I have never cracked any (though I have cracked 505s).....and their B8 alloy is softer than the B20 Zildjians you have been cracking. Lastly, there is great consistency being Paistes.

Start with a 20 inch RIDE and use it as a crash. That will give you an idea of what could be.

DON'T use: medium HHs, 16Crash, 18Crash - as these three are too thin. 16,18,20 Mediums are all good, 20RIDE is a great crash and can ride as well. 22RIDE is great but hard to find. 22MEDIUM is great too but even harder to find. You might want to deviate from the 404s when selecting a ride, though the 22RIDE might be your delight.

Note: Giant Beats might be an alternate choice because they might be easier to find. A mix of both these lines might be interesting as well.
 


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