My double strokes suck.

Old PIT Guy

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I think a balanced approach works best. What I mean by that is using inverted double strokes in pieces for fills or grooves, maybe working more with right-hand lead patterns and ghost notes etc. All of that stuff, in addition to mama-daddy, can get it done without you knowing it. Not in a super double stroke freak way, but to a point where you're squeezing out decent doubles enough to motivate spending more time with them.
 

multijd

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Yes you can practice without a book. But one of the advantages of a book is that it gives you an organized routine to play through with the aim of reaching your goal. A solid pedagaogical approach will keep you from floundering around when you are unmotivated or stuck which are inevitable when trying to progress. Good teachers are absolutely beneficial. They won’t let you get away with half-way and they know the pitfalls and cures.
And taking off on another one of the posts here: Triple strokes will improve your doubles as will quadruples. This was one of Jim Chapin’s words of wisdom.
 

squidart

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Yes you can practice without a book. But one of the advantages of a book is that it gives you an organized routine to play through with the aim of reaching your goal. A solid pedagaogical approach will keep you from floundering around when you are unmotivated or stuck which are inevitable when trying to progress. Good teachers are absolutely beneficial. They won’t let you get away with half-way and they know the pitfalls and cures.
And taking off on another one of the posts here: Triple strokes will improve your doubles as will quadruples. This was one of Jim Chapin’s words of wisdom.
And this is exactly why I asked for book suggestions. I need the solid road map or I'll definitely go into reckless noodling mode with no progress markers. The directionless approach is exactly how I got to this point of frustration.
 

Matched Gripper

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OK I think I'll grab a copy of Stick Control and work on it. Then (hesitantly) shoot a video so youz all can assess my bad habits, wardrobe, cats, etc.
Don't wait up. This is going to be like pulling teeth for me but I'll do it. Thanks all.
Did you see Bill Bachman’s explanation of the 3 techniques for doubles? You could practice Page 5 from Stick Control for the rest of your life and make a modest progress if you don’t understand and practice optimal technique. JMO!
 

squidart

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Did you see Bill Bachman’s explanation of the 3 techniques for doubles? You could practice Page 5 from Stick Control for the rest of your life and make a modest progress if you don’t understand and practice optimal technique. JMO!
Yes I did and it might take a bit to digest it all but totally makes sense!
 

Matched Gripper

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Yes I did and it might take a bit to digest it all but totally makes sense!
It’s really pretty simple. Unfortunately, the free video that describes all 3 techniques is no longer on YouTube. In the 30 minute workout video I posted, you can see that it cuts out the first and third techniques. However, the second technique is the most important, and he gives a lot of good info during the workout that you do along with him. You want powerful, clean, open doubles? Go through the whole workout once and you will see what I mean.
 

drummer1234

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Besides practicing page 5 (#’s 3 & 4) to begin to develop better double strokes, start George Lawrence Stone’s follow up book “Accents and Rebounds”

Both of these books changed my life.

Also don’t forget to work on your bass drum technique. Best book for that hands down is “Bass Drum Control” by Colin Bailey.

Amazing books - and a lot of FUN to work on. They improved me so much they never felt like a tedium but a great amount of fun improving myself.
 

squidart

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Besides practicing page 5 (#’s 3 & 4) to begin to develop better double strokes, start George Lawrence Stone’s follow up book “Accents and Rebounds”

Both of these books changed my life.

Also don’t forget to work on your bass drum technique. Best book for that hands down is “Bass Drum Control” by Colin Bailey.

Amazing books - and a lot of FUN to work on. They improved me so much they never felt like a tedium but a great amount of fun improving myself.
Duly noted. I have Bass Drum Control. The book, not actual bass drum control. :)
 

Pat A Flafla

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I stopped lurking and joined just to tell you this easy way to get rolls going:
Pinch the front fingers (fulcrum), relax the back fingers 99%, then use ZERO percent wrist/fingers and 100% arm for rolls.
When you "squeeze the bottle" with back fingers on rolls, you are basically defeating the rebound (and tone!) of the 2nd bounce. If you start (prep) with zero wrist bend and your fingers up against your palm (the opposite of a regular legato stroke or downstroke), and let the fingers go out with the butt of the stick on the first bounce, then the second bounce can go higher and match the volume of the first one because you aren't defeating the rebound by pushing upward on the butt of the stick with your fingers. This is how I teach all my students to roll. My college students usually go, "Oh wow. That does have a better tone."
 

squidart

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I stopped lurking and joined just to tell you this easy way to get rolls going:
Pinch the front fingers (fulcrum), relax the back fingers 99%, then use ZERO percent wrist/fingers and 100% arm for rolls.
When you "squeeze the bottle" with back fingers on rolls, you are basically defeating the rebound (and tone!) of the 2nd bounce. If you start (prep) with zero wrist bend and your fingers up against your palm (the opposite of a regular legato stroke or downstroke), and let the fingers go out with the butt of the stick on the first bounce, then the second bounce can go higher and match the volume of the first one because you aren't defeating the rebound by pushing upward on the butt of the stick with your fingers. This is how I teach all my students to roll. My college students usually go, "Oh wow. That does have a better tone."
That all makes sense except "100% arms". What am I missing here?
 

squidart

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You're assuming I have bad *lights cigarette, slams tequila shot* habits. Lol

Yes this is true. If my left hand still sucks after working Stick Control a bit I'll throw it out there to be corrected.
 

Pat A Flafla

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It means that your arm should be the only thing moving, with your wrist and fingers in C3PO mode. It seems counterintuitive, but move the pivot point of the action from your wrist, to halfway up your forearm. Watch rudimental drummers playing very fast rolls on youtube, then do that same thing slow. ex:
That's the only way to execute rolls that fast, and slowing that same motion down is also an excellent way to make sure your wrists and fingers aren't destroying your roll quality by trying to help too much.
 

squidart

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"It's been four days, should be much better by now"..
Yer killin me man...
I ask for the time here and I get instructions to build a nuclear clock! Lemme get a music stand first and an eye appointment set up. Lol!

"Just wanna do bigazz Blakey open crescendos, grumble grumble..."
 

Pat A Flafla

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I have a little curriculum for programming in automatic switching between arm on short rolls and wrist on regular strokes. I think this is a hole in percussion pedagogy, because the "more talented" players do this automatically whithout knowing it, and the "less talented" players (i.e. the ones who didn't magically figure out the switching variables) just get left under the bus with bad sounding rolls.
 


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