BTW, look into these Summit Drums. They are very affordable considering that they are solid, steam bent drums...one ply with reinforcement hoops. They are way more affordable than you might think. Gary is a great guy to deal with and he is very fair with his pricing. About half the price of Craviotto solid drums...in that ball park.You kidding me? An offer of fine food, fellowship AND drums???? I hope one day I can take you up on that my friend!!!!!