My Oaklawn Camco bop kit

DolFan54

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That has to be a 'one of a kind' kit now wouldn't you say? I mean bop, stain, and oval? Do you know of another?
Almost all oval badge drums and kits that pop up are natural maple. Other than snare drums Osa’s is the only full walnut kit I have ever seen.

I personally love the oval badge! Maybe because it’s different and rare? Not sure. I have a natural kit of oval badge singles I put together. 20/13/16 w/ 6.5x14 snare
 

Ludwigboy

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What a beautiful drum! I have never seen a Camco kit in person...only photos! It must feel satisfying to find this drum ...no matter if your love is Ludwig,Camco, Rogers, Gretsch, etc etc .... finding an elusive drum for your kit and the satisfaction that this brings is universal to all vintage drum fans!
 

Osahead2

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I would like to add a another possibility to this wonderfully detailed insight. If it were discovered that other early 60's finishes also had the Oval badge, then it may be that the company that supplied the Black Cloud badge couldn't accommodate the new owner's (John Rochon) request right away for a White Cloud badge, so he may have temporarily switched suppliers or went with a simpler badge while waiting for the White Cloud to come through. Then they shelved them.
Good point... however if you notice my walnut bop kit it has the later center style tom mount and not the early rail mount typically found on all early kits up to about 1967'ish as standard option. And, I have never seen any Camco catalog offer the a later style center tom mount prior to 1967.

But of course anything is possible with Camco.
 

Osahead2

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Almost all oval badge drums and kits that pop up are natural maple. Other than snare drums Osa’s is the only full walnut kit I have ever seen.

I personally love the oval badge! Maybe because it’s different and rare? Not sure. I have a natural kit of oval badge singles I put together. 20/13/16 w/ 6.5x14 snare
Hmm because of your statement now, I would love to know the true breakdown of Camco factory production for oval badge drums.

I just can't believe this might be the only one floating around. Don't get me wrong I'm certainly happy to have it but in all honesty, I would rather have a earlier walnut rail mount bop kit with cloud badge.
 

Osahead2

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What a beautiful drum! I have never seen a Camco kit in person...only photos! It must feel satisfying to find this drum ...no matter if your love is Ludwig,Camco, Rogers, Gretsch, etc etc .... finding an elusive drum for your kit and the satisfaction that this brings is universal to all vintage drum fans!
Yes very satisfying indeed. I have completed other rare kits in the past by just waiting and waiting for a particular drum to show up... and when it does... wow what a huge relief.
 

Prufrock

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I've done a quick survey of all of the Camco drum photos I've archived over the past seven years or so, and here are a couple of observations that may add to and confirm what has already been said:

- oval badges appear mainly on later Camco drums with steel hoops and brass (usually darkened to chocolate brown) grommets. The tone controls tend to be mounted to the left of the badge on the snare drums.

- later in the Oaklawn period there are more lacquer finished drums, so it shouldn't be surprising the oval badges tend to show up on maple and walnut finish drums.

- I believe Jolo has a beautiful oval badge walnut kit. I'm not sure what size the bass drum is, but hopefully he can confirm. I have also seen a kit in BDP.

- As Steve has already said, there are early drums with oval badges. These have 1st generation COB hoops and chrome plated grommets. It is also interesting to note that most these that I have seen so far happen to be early Orchestra model snare drums - with Tuxedo lugs, and with a trapezoidal strainer.

My sense is that the earliest badge is still the one with "Oaklawn, Ill." without the USA on it. The Orchestra model drums with this early badge also tend to have an earlier version of the tone control with a metal disk holding the felt, rather than a black plastic one. It would be interesting to see what type of tone control the oval-badged Orchestra models have. There are examples of Camco snare drums with early attributes that also have the "USA" cloud badge, so there must have been periods of overlap, rather than any set progression of badges (as has been said before in other discussions). I do wonder, however, if the oval badge might have been considered for a specific line of drums originally to help further distinguish them - in other words, was there a time when Aristocrat drums had a "USA" cloud badge, and the Orchestra (and possibly other Tuxedo model drums) had an oval badge? Any early Aristocrat with an oval badge, first generation COB hoops, and a chrome plated grommet might challenge this hypothesis. The other possibility is that they tried a new alternative design to the cloud badge, and when they were ordered and put on a few drums, they decided that the cloud badge was preferable, and yet they now had all of these leftover oval badges that were used on some early drums, but then put aside until late in the Oaklawn period it seems they pulled them out and decided to start using them.

Little by little we may get to the fuller understanding of how and when these badges came into being, and how they were used, especially early in the Oaklawn period.
 

studrum

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Please, sir, what do you mean by Camco's "1st generation COB hoops"? What do these look like?
Thanks
 

levelpebble

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Here is my tuxedo 14x14 with the oval badge, just finished putting it through it's Saturday morning workout. The 12 and 20 have cloud badges, the snare NONE, but with the key holder, all brass rolled hoops. Bought last year from the original owner in Indiana.
 

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Prufrock

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Please, sir, what do you mean by Camco's "1st generation COB hoops"? What do these look like?
Thanks

In the OP, there is a photo of three snare drums. The one in the middle has the 1st generation camco Chrome Over Brass hoops. They are quite tall, and the top edge is rolled over to make it double thick (whereas most triple flange hoops have the edge sticking out at a right angle). George Way designed these, and they were called "double flange, double edge" hoops.

These were used for the first several years of the Camco Oaklawn period. There was a second generation of the COB hoops that weren't quite as tall, and with a regular flange on the top edge (these are pretty scarce). Most later Oaklawn period drums have Chrome Over Steel triple flange hoops. The first of these have distinctive "ears" around where the tension rods go in. These were then replaced by generic COS hoops that were MIJ.

Both the current iteration of the George Way Drum Co and DW use a "double edge" hoop, although they are beefier, not as tall, and made of steel. Still very nice hoops.

Hope this helps!
 

Osahead2

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I've done a quick survey of all of the Camco drum photos I've archived over the past seven years or so, and here are a couple of observations that may add to and confirm what has already been said:

- oval badges appear mainly on later Camco drums with steel hoops and brass (usually darkened to chocolate brown) grommets. The tone controls tend to be mounted to the left of the badge on the snare drums.

- later in the Oaklawn period there are more lacquer finished drums, so it shouldn't be surprising the oval badges tend to show up on maple and walnut finish drums.

- I believe Jolo has a beautiful oval badge walnut kit. I'm not sure what size the bass drum is, but hopefully he can confirm. I have also seen a kit in BDP.

- As Steve has already said, there are early drums with oval badges. These have 1st generation COB hoops and chrome plated grommets. It is also interesting to note that most these that I have seen so far happen to be early Orchestra model snare drums - with Tuxedo lugs, and with a trapezoidal strainer.

My sense is that the earliest badge is still the one with "Oaklawn, Ill." without the USA on it. The Orchestra model drums with this early badge also tend to have an earlier version of the tone control with a metal disk holding the felt, rather than a black plastic one. It would be interesting to see what type of tone control the oval-badged Orchestra models have. There are examples of Camco snare drums with early attributes that also have the "USA" cloud badge, so there must have been periods of overlap, rather than any set progression of badges (as has been said before in other discussions). I do wonder, however, if the oval badge might have been considered for a specific line of drums originally to help further distinguish them - in other words, was there a time when Aristocrat drums had a "USA" cloud badge, and the Orchestra (and possibly other Tuxedo model drums) had an oval badge? Any early Aristocrat with an oval badge, first generation COB hoops, and a chrome plated grommet might challenge this hypothesis. The other possibility is that they tried a new alternative design to the cloud badge, and when they were ordered and put on a few drums, they decided that the cloud badge was preferable, and yet they now had all of these leftover oval badges that were used on some early drums, but then put aside until late in the Oaklawn period it seems they pulled them out and decided to start using them.

Little by little we may get to the fuller understanding of how and when these badges came into being, and how they were used, especially early in the Oaklawn period.
My oval badge kit has all COS hoops and brass grommets... which indicates it's leaning more towards the later period of the Oaklawn era.
 

Prufrock

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I think you might right about that. In all my years of searching for Camco drums this oval badge kit happens to be the only one, I have ever seen... but, I'm sure their must be others oval badge bop kits.

Also if you look really good at my floor tom you will notice it has Ludwig leg mounts and two Gretsch tone controls... but let me tell you... their was absolutely NO WAY IN HELL, I was going to let this walnut 14x14 floor tom with oval badge pass me up over a few modifications due to the extreme rareaty of the oval badge drums.

Fyi: this floor tom has no extra holes just those two mods otherwise it's 100% original. I actually have other orphan walnut 14x14 floor tom but they are wing badge.
And the snare drum has the tone control to the left of the badge, correct?
 

DolFan54

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Hmm because of your statement now, I would love to know the true breakdown of Camco factory production for oval badge drums.

I just can't believe this might be the only one floating around. Don't get me wrong I'm certainly happy to have it but in all honesty, I would rather have a earlier walnut rail mount bop kit with cloud badge.
A friend of mine sold his early 60’s bop kit in walnut a couple of years ago. Rail mount. I didn’t even know he was selling it. One day he had it and the next he didn’t.
 

Osahead2

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A friend of mine sold his early 60’s bop kit in walnut a couple of years ago. Rail mount. I didn’t even know he was selling it. One day he had it and the next he didn’t.
Hey DolFan54, I actually remember you telling me about that kit back in 2017 and how he replaced it with a walnut 20/12/14 Oaklawn kit in the same spot where the bop kit sat. My heart was broken too when it sold. And the high price at which it sold was interesting too!

Although, I have several nice vintage Camco bop kits that particular rail mount kit is my #1 dream kit... my 2nd dream kit is your beautiful blue sparkle Oaklawn kit!
 

Jolo

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Congratulatios on picking up that oval badge 14x14, an incredible find.
Here's my second Oaklawn Walnut 20/12/14/SN and only one with oval badges. My first Oaklawn cloud badge Walnut 20/12/14/SN went to a collector friend who lived north of Chicago.
Unfortunately, his basement which held his drum collection, totally flooded and his drums were afloat and ruined so I sold him this set. He had actual floating snare drums, etc.
I still have a third Oaklawn cloud badge Walnut 20/12/14/SN in pristine condition.
I once had a never played LA Camco 18/12/14 in a beautiful super dark grainy Ebony Stain which was ordered with no mounts on the drums including no spurs or floor tom leg mounts.
 

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