Neil Peart, Greatest Drummer Of All Time

dcrigger

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
6,017
Reaction score
3,558
Location
California
I did not title it such. The article was titled that way. I just copied the title of the article. Makes me wonder whether you read the article that this thread is about.

Look, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The beauty of this forum is that we can all agree to disagree, whether you see it that way or not.
Why do you seem to assume that I don't see it that way??? Because it seems all I've done is disagree with you... you say Neil is important these reasons - that I disagree with. You state all these things about Buddy (and about Neil for that matter) - that I know to be factually wrong - so I disagree with you stating them as true.

Even here - you say you didn't title the thread??? Then who did? The editors of MusicRadar didn't start a thread here - they may have chose this GOAT nonsense for the title of their article - but you chose it for the topic of a thread that you wanted to be about Neil. How did that go? Your title choice insured that the thread is about the article, which is specifically about whether Neil is the GOAT.

So that's what's been discussed.

Even now you're berating me for having not read the article - I've been discussing Neil (which I thought you said was the point of this). And of course I didn't read the article. I mean, I just skimmed it now, but no. I previously haven't. Why?

Because if countless Vistalite Black have taught me anything, it's that any article published by MusicRadar.com that starts with the words... "It's Official" is a surefire exercise in inane clickbait, light weight music journalism that is never, ever worth the time it takes to click on it's link, then 10 seconds in, smack the back button, while cursing my stupidity for once again subjecting myself to their tripe.

So I'm absolutely fine that we disagree. And generally don't care one way or the other about these pointless "my favorite player is the absolute GOAT" discussion. Until someone really leaves to land of opinion and really starts misrepresenting others to justify their allegiance to their "favorite play, the GOAT.

In this thread - you hooked me with your "Neil had the balls to play other styles of music. Buddy didn't. He played one style and that was it." line.

This is the problem with GOAT discussions - for someone to be crowned, others invariably need to be torn down. Because, not surprisingly, no can just win the title on their merits - because.... there is no greatest player of all time. There is no best. We are artists, not high jumpers. Our greatness cannot be sure measured with a simple tape measure.

Frankly from everything I've read of Neil Peart - I think he would be appalled that you feel the need to tear down, to diminish another players accomplishments (particularly one Neil so admired) in order to defend the desire to search Neil solely on some pedestal.

So that's what we really disagree about - I could care less what music rocks your boat, which player you hold as your gold standard - we all have our personal choices. We should feel secure in this choices - so secure that we have no reason to validate them with consensus.

Anyway - sorry for any ruffled feathers.

David
 

DanRH

Old guy, getting younger
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
23,543
Reaction score
4,769
Location
SF Bay Area
DITTO ^^^^^^^^
Like others have said, Neil would not agree with the original statement.
 
Last edited:

bigbonzo

DFO Star
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
8,493
Reaction score
1,740
Location
The Wild Wild West (Side of Cleveland)
Why do you seem to assume that I don't see it that way??? Because it seems all I've done is disagree with you... you say Neil is important these reasons - that I disagree with. You state all these things about Buddy (and about Neil for that matter) - that I know to be factually wrong - so I disagree with you stating them as true.

Even here - you say you didn't title the thread??? Then who did? The editors of MusicRadar didn't start a thread here - they may have chose this GOAT nonsense for the title of their article - but you chose it for the topic of a thread that you wanted to be about Neil. How did that go? Your title choice insured that the thread is about the article, which is specifically about whether Neil is the GOAT.

So that's what's been discussed.

Even now you're berating me for having not read the article - I've been discussing Neil (which I thought you said was the point of this). And of course I didn't read the article. I mean, I just skimmed it now, but no. I previously haven't. Why?

Because if countless Vistalite Black have taught me anything, it's that any article published by MusicRadar.com that starts with the words... "It's Official" is a surefire exercise in inane clickbait, light weight music journalism that is never, ever worth the time it takes to click on it's link, then 10 seconds in, smack the back button, while cursing my stupidity for once again subjecting myself to their tripe.

So I'm absolutely fine that we disagree. And generally don't care one way or the other about these pointless "my favorite player is the absolute GOAT" discussion. Until someone really leaves to land of opinion and really starts misrepresenting others to justify their allegiance to their "favorite play, the GOAT.

In this thread - you hooked me with your "Neil had the balls to play other styles of music. Buddy didn't. He played one style and that was it." line.

This is the problem with GOAT discussions - for someone to be crowned, others invariably need to be torn down. Because, not surprisingly, no can just win the title on their merits - because.... there is no greatest player of all time. There is no best. We are artists, not high jumpers. Our greatness cannot be sure measured with a simple tape measure.

Frankly from everything I've read of Neil Peart - I think he would be appalled that you feel the need to tear down, to diminish another players accomplishments (particularly one Neil so admired) in order to defend the desire to search Neil solely on some pedestal.

So that's what we really disagree about - I could care less what music rocks your boat, which player you hold as your gold standard - we all have our personal choices. We should feel secure in this choices - so secure that we have no reason to validate them with consensus.

Anyway - sorry for any ruffled feathers.

David
I'm not so pro-Neil as much as I'm anti-Buddy. In my opinion Buddy was a real douche-bag at a concert that I saw him at in Lakewood Ohio in 1975.

No feathers ruffled.
 

853guy

Active Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
55
I'm not so pro-Neil as much as I'm anti-Buddy. In my opinion Buddy was a real douche-bag at a concert that I saw him at in Lakewood Ohio in 1975.
Learning to take responsibility for ones actions as an adult not withstanding, by the time Peart was given his first drum kit at age fourteen, Buddy had already been performing publicly for twelve years.

Raise a performing monkey, be prepared for feces to be thrown.

Very hard to find exceptions to that rule.
 

SplineSpider

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
24
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Spare me. All these GOAT proclamations….

I wish they’d just call them FOAT (Favorite Of All Time).

Regardless there is one thing in that piece that really makes me agree that Mr. Peart is OOG (One Of the Greats).

It comes under the heading He Never Stopped Learning.

To have that level of talent and heightened success, yet still strive to get better, that’s really something.
Absolutely.
 

SplineSpider

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
24
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
I dig all kinds of music and all kinds of drumming, but as far as drum solos go, I rarely like anything outside of jazz. To me following the form of a tune and referencing the different sections, the changes, the melodies, etc that someone like Max Roach or really any number of jazz drummers do when they solo is what makes it all compelling for me to listen to. The typical freeform chops-fest type solo that rock drummers do, I find boring. One of a just a few exceptions to that though are Simon Phillips' solos; to my ears those are great. If that guy was only on one album, 801 Live, I'd still think that he was amazing and he doesn't even do any soloing on that album, at least not any unaccompanied solos (some featured drum things though). He does some stuff on double bass too that I don't hear with others that play that. With most double bass stuff, I just hear a doubling or quadrupling of the 8th note pulse that's being played on a cymbal - varations on 16th note or 32nd notes. Simon Phillips though will sometimes play triplets on the bass drum against that 8th pulse, which makes for a cool polyrhythm and is something that must be very difficult coordination-wise...
My thoughts exactly.
 

SplineSpider

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
24
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Massive, self aggrandizing egos are not unique to drummers or musicians or anyone who had to self promote to not only succeed but to eat. Buddy Rich didn't get that somewhat self awarded title unearned. His work ethic was second to none. All the greatest drummers no matter the genre style or kit size have that one measure in common as a part of their recipe to greatness. When no one was looking they were putting in the hours practicing. Something I can always do more of.
 

Josla

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2020
Messages
6
Reaction score
8
As far as I am concerned, I have a simple view of "the best drummer ever"

There are extremely good drummers who drum so well that the level at which they play will never be attainable for 99.9% of the drummers. And that gift to drum at such a high level has several drummers, and in the past several drummers have drummed at that level. But EVERY drummer at that level has their own musical preference, interpretation and style. These differences mean that it is a matter of taste and experience of the person who listens to his favorite music will assert his SUBJECTIVE preference influenced by his favorite style and drummer.



WHO was the best COMPOSER ever ?: Bach-Mozart-Beethoven- Handel-Schubert- Vivaldi-Tchaikovsky or Haydn?

You got my point of view, it's a matter of taste.
 

SplineSpider

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
24
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
I'm starting to think- someone mentioned it- if Buddy would have sat in or done an album with RUSH.. He would have approached- as it seems he "approached rock" with at first.. a very gentle touch (he didn't really understand or "grasp" the heavy hands when playing simple beats) But.... I think he could have done an album with say a RUSH and it would have been interesting ..even... Good..

So I know he tackled a bunch o' rock songs in 70s albums (yet to find an odd meter one but..) listening to the approach here. He could have done a RUSH album and YOU may have dug it. Listen and see if you can imagine what ..it would be like...


there's others where he played rock songs
(that's Greg Hopkins one my Instructors on lead trumpet; nicest teacher you'd ever meet; think I had him for an Arranging class..)
Look in Rich's discography "Stick It" and "Roar of 74" for more Rock
also " Different Drummer"
Great stuff, thanks for sharing. It wouldn't Be Buddy Rich without him barking at his horn section while playing some incredibly difficult pattern.
 

SplineSpider

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
21
Reaction score
24
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Buddy never had a band? Who's he abusing on the bus tapes, then?

I'm now imagining the Peart bus tapes: "Alex, you got three weeks to get rid of that mustache. This is Rush: young Canadians with faces!"
Buddy never had a band like Frank Zappa never had a band. If you mean a band of equal peers he played with. You are absolutely correct. More like Zappa he had a stable of hired guns he whipped like dogs. Turn over was probably crazy. Just an incomparable model. Carmine Appice was probably as big an ego but he managed to work with some brilliant peers.
 

JazzDoc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
85
Reaction score
100
Location
central PA, USA
I'm not so pro-Neil as much as I'm anti-Buddy. In my opinion Buddy was a real douche-bag at a concert that I saw him at in Lakewood Ohio in 1975.

No feathers ruffled.
Well, you don’t go to the greatest neurosurgeon in the world because of his bedside manner.
“To be beautiful is enough. You don’t want a rose to sing.”
 

JimmySticks

DFO Veteran
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
1,977
Reaction score
2,378
Location
Queens NY
Learning to take responsibility for ones actions as an adult not withstanding, by the time Peart was given his first drum kit at age fourteen, Buddy had already been performing publicly for twelve years.

Raise a performing monkey, be prepared for feces to be thrown.

Very hard to find exceptions to that rule.
I agree, he had no upbringing at all. Growing up dirt poor, doing the Vaudeville circuit since he was 2 years old, never spending one day in school and was never even tutored. Well it explains a lot.

But as you can tell from bigbonzo s response, his extreme dislike, or even hate maybe, stems from one concert that Buddy acted like a D bag. If he can't get past that to see any good in the man, than there is no sense in talking to him about Buddy's life or times or his immense contribution to drumming and swing music. He just keeps re-enforcing the Buddy sucks mantra.

Geniuses can be complicated creatures and Buddy was both, a genius and complicated.
 

Corbin L Douthitt

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
196
Reaction score
87
Location
Texas
If you want fast and loud, Buddy. If you want dynamics and style- Krupa/Bellson. If you want versitile-Joe Morello, Joe played everything form movie sound tracks, to Rock and Roll to Beach Boys and ?
GOAT? That’s like asking what is the best truck. Or a hammer. It’s more about the application than the tool. Ringo was the ‘best’ drummer for the Beatles. Jeff Porcaro was the best drummer for Toto. Etc, ad nauseum
How about MFDOAT. My Favorite Drummer of All Time, instead. We are fortunate to have had a LOT of talented drummers to infulence us over the last 100 years. A list of the ‘best’ is long and full of great stars- and obscure talents that weren’t recognized in their time.
 

Peano

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
58
Reaction score
60
Location
Virginia
"_______ is the greatest ________ of all time" is a sentence no rational adult would utter, regardless of what is put in the blank spaces.
 

Danzgroove

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
10
Location
Burbank,CA
If you want fast and loud, Buddy. If you want dynamics and style- Krupa/Bellson. If you want versitile-Joe Morello, Joe played everything form movie sound tracks, to Rock and Roll to Beach Boys and ?
GOAT? That’s like asking what is the best truck. Or a hammer. It’s more about the application than the tool. Ringo was the ‘best’ drummer for the Beatles. Jeff Porcaro was the best drummer for Toto. Etc, ad nauseum
How about MFDOAT. My Favorite Drummer of All Time, instead. We are fortunate to have had a LOT of talented drummers to infulence us over the last 100 years. A list of the ‘best’ is long and full of great stars- and obscure talents that weren’t recognized in their time.
Throw Manne into the mix when you’re talking versatile. And Blaine.
 


Top