New Ludwig Legacy Jazz Festival

K.O.

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So, as I mentioned in a couple of other posts I just bought an Oyster Black Legacy Jazz Fest snare drum. I'd wanted one since they were introduced. It seemed obvious that Ludwig had maybe learned a lesson from Gary A. selling 15 (or however many he sold, last I knew they were nearly all gone) at $30,000 each of what were pretty much a drum that Ludwig could easily build. At the time many of us mentioned how if they offered a similar drum for around a grand many of us would be interested. I certainly was although I wasn't sure if I needed another OBP drum and the Mod Orange and Galaxy Glitter versions were equally appealing to my eye. A little over a week ago I was wasting some time on ebay (still in lockdown at the time, now I'm back to work, at least for now) and happened to stumble onto a BIN listing for one of these for $509 shipped. It was a floor demo model from Cascio Interstate. New but had been opened. Looking thru the sold items listings it appeared that a slightly used one had been sold for $450 (plus almost $50 shipping) but otherwise these are pretty well confined to being sold "new" at $759. So I hit the button and a week later it showed up.

So it came repackaged in its original factory box. I opened the box with a bit of trepidation as you just never know what you're going to get when it comes to this wrap. I've been burned before both on complete drums and pieces of wrap. It all looks fine by itself and generally with other new drums but typically when you put it next to a vintage example you immediately can see a big difference. I held my breath a bit as I pulled it out of the bubble wrap...and it looked great. About as close as I expect anyone could ever get given the overall random nature of this stuff in the first place.

So here is the deal. It's a 5.5x14 3 ply shell made from mahogany and poplar with maple re-rings. The snare beds look like the old style ones. The badge is on the panel adjacent to the throw off which was a production detail that ended around 1964. Ringo's Jazz Fest had this placement and that is what separates it (and others made around the same time) from the "run of the mill" OBP Jazz fests made from 1964-1969. Those later drums that are still rare and valuable, but having the badge on the correct "Ringo" panel on a vintage one ups the ante exponentially and it's cool that Ludwig got this detail right (although it doesn't work so well if you're a stickler for such details and you buy the Mod Orange version). The interior is painted white, as it should be, and the muffler is a recreation of the ball bat with red felt (more on that part in a bit). Some modernization has crept in, they installed the new P-88 throw off and the new butt. There are black washers under the tensions rods and the threads go all the way to the top of the rods. They did leave off the lug gaskets though. The keystone badge has a silver grommet rather than a brass one and there is a nylon spacer washer inside the drum for the back side of the grommet. Almost all of this could be undone if someone were of a mind to. I'm not sure you could replace the butt with the old style using the same holes (unless Ludwig tapped out the butt so it would use the other spacing....which seems unlikely but possibly could have happened). The other stuff is just "parts" swapping. In fact I already pulled off the P88 and replaced it with a vintage P83. Nothing wrong with the P88, it's a great throw off, but it will end up on a different drum, this one "needs" the P83. I'm not as concerned about the butt although if I find out it can be swapped without any drilling I probably will do so.

So it looks great and it sounds great. I think I really lucked out on a particularly nice piece of wrap. Luck of the draw or maybe those Italian artisans have finally dialed it in as to how to recreate the look of the old stuff their grandfathers made. In the pictures below the new drum is sitting on top of my 60's Jazz Festival and it's very close in looks. The mahogany outer ply helps in this regard since you can catch hints of the reddish brown through the translucent areas on the wrap. That is one thing that contributed to the look of the original drums and when you put that same wrap around a maple outer ply it throws off the color slightly. If you're ever cloning a "Ringo snare" using a maple shell it would behoove you to stain the outside of the shell mahogany before applying the wrap.

I have yet to experience a bad sounding Legacy drum. I have two other Legacy snare drums and they are the classic Ludwig snare sound but put together so much more carefully than the old ones ever were. Not sure if I'll ever own a whole set at this stage of the game but I'd like to somewhere down the road.

So the ball bat muffler has a quirk and I'm curious if it is something not quite right about mine or applies to all of them. The handle can be rotated all the way around. If not for the interference of the head when coming up towards it backwards then the handle would rotate all the way around. There is a piece of metal bracket that if extended another quarter inch would stop the arm in the "down" position with the handle parallel to the head but it ends too soon to block the handle from traveling further. I believe that extending part of the frame that would be the same design as what stops the vintage ones from rotating further. Has anyone else run into this? Not a big deal. I've already figured out a fix that will not require any real modification to be done. I seldom use mufflers so it's not that important to me but I am curious how this detail slipped by. If it did, maybe it's by design or maybe I got one that wasn't quite put together right. Hard to say. I'll gladly trade this slight issue (if it is one) for getting the nice piece of wrap.

So now I COULD set up both Ringo sets with an appropriate snare drum that matches the other drums (more or less).

Still thinking about that Galaxy Sparkle one too....I wonder if Cascio has one of those on the floor....or if my wallet might get some additional "stimulation" .



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cochlea

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Thanks for following up with a photo comparing the two wraps. This appears to be one of the best reproductions of 60's Oyster Black Pearl that I've come across. The black streaks appear a little more bold on the new drum but that may be more of a factor of the vintage wrap fading a bit over time. Swapping out the throw-off for a P-83 was a nice touch.
 

K.O.

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Pretty sure I was REALLY lucky on the wrap. The Ludwig gods were smiling on me.
Someone posted this picture of their same model drum on Facebook. I would not have been as thrilled if I had pulled this drum out of the box. Not that it isn't a nice looking drum but has wandered away from the vintage stuff a fair amount. Almost looks like Blue Strata.



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cochlea

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Pretty sure I was REALLY lucky on the wrap. The Ludwig gods were smiling on me.
Someone posted this picture of their same model drum on Facebook. I would not have been as thrilled if I had pulled this drum out of the box. Not that it isn't a nice looking drum but has wandered away from the vintage stuff a fair amount. Almost looks like Blue Strata.



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Wow, that is dramatically different from the wrap on your new Jazz Festival. It looks more like the wrap on the Limited Edition Jazz Festival (5x14) that Ludwig produced 6 or 7 years ago, which several of us purchased. Although it was a beautiful wrap, it was far from an accurate reproduction of 60's Oyster Black Pearl. I doubt I will buy one of these new Jazz Festivals, but if I ever do, I'd have to see it first to ensure that it was more like the one you received.
 

Matched Gripper

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Just my subjective observation, but, the original Black and Blue Oyster Pearls looked like they had real mother of pearl in the wrap. An amazing effect. The modern replicas that I’ve seen do not. It’s hard to tell from your pic if your modern drum has that effect.

But, $30,000 for a new drum? Yikes!
 

K.O.

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Just my subjective observation, but, the original Black and Blue Oyster Pearls looked like they had real mother of pearl in the wrap. An amazing effect. The modern replicas that I’ve seen do not. It’s hard to tell from your pic if your modern drum has that effect.

But, $30,000 for a new drum? Yikes!
The $30K drums were signed on the inside by Ringo, so there's that. Otherwise they were pretty similar to one of these except for the butt and throw and the badge. The wrap on those was "selected" for those drums, although I think the wrap on my example is as good, if not better, than on the one Starr Fest I saw in person.

The repro "vintage" version of the OBP wrap usually does have the pearly looking white sections. Generally it's the black areas seem to be darker than on vintage drums, whether that is due to different pigments or fading on the originals is hard to say. Probably a bit of both.
 
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DannyPattersonMusic

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I have the Legacy Jazz Festival snare in the Mod Orange and was happy with it except for the snare cord as it broke after about 3 gigs, which looks like you've already replaced it. The original cord that came on it is that green dental floss looking stuff.
 

yetanotherdrummer

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I would love to have one of those, but they are a bit more than I would like to spend.

I will just be happy with my Jazz Fest pink oyster re-issue they did back in 2009. It's not a "real" Jazz Fest like these are, but it was a lot less money too.
 

marc3k

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Here is mine, on top of my 1961 bass drum and tom. I think it's totally fine for me - I don't care too much but I think she matches well.

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K.O.

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I would love to have one of those, but they are a bit more than I would like to spend.

I will just be happy with my Jazz Fest pink oyster re-issue they did back in 2009. It's not a "real" Jazz Fest like these are, but it was a lot less money too.
I have one of those Oyster Pink jobs too. It did irritate me at the time that they put ten lugs on it but they are a nice drum. I also have the later Oyster Black "limited edition" model. Supposedly they had a special batch of wrap for those but, at least on the one I got, not so much. On the bright side, they did put the right number of lugs on those.

It was the $500 price that got me to jump on this, I also couldn't quite justify paying $760 for one. Assuming Cascio wanted to at least break even on this drum it seems to indicate a pretty healthy markup even at MAP (minimum advertised price...$759).

I got my BB muffler squared away so it works correctly. The nuts on the arm were not positioned properly, some minor adjusting fixed that so now the arm stops and rests where it should.
 
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K.O.

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I have the Legacy Jazz Festival snare in the Mod Orange and was happy with it except for the snare cord as it broke after about 3 gigs, which looks like you've already replaced it. The original cord that came on it is that green dental floss looking stuff.
Yes I replaced it on the throw off side with 1.4mm blind cord. I need to do the butt side as well. I thought they had just changed the color from orange to blue/green but now that I see it in person the new cord is considerably thinner than the old orange stuff. I bought 100 feet of the white stuff on ebay for about $10. Since then I found an orange version but I think I already have enough to last a lifetime (especially at my age).
 

Gunnellett

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It was the $500 price that got me to jump on this, I also couldn't quite justify paying $760 for one. Assuming Cascio wanted to at least break even on this drum it seems to indicate a pretty healthy markup even at MAP (minimum advertised price...$759).
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I am not in the "know" here and I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if a retailer pays even half of the MAP. I bet the mark up on instruments are pretty healthy and Cascio still made enough money to make it worth their time. It was a BIN price with the seller knowing exactly what they were going to get, not the gamble of an auction that has the potential of the item not going as high as a seller would have hoped for. A retailer may even get a break from the manufacturer for display or open box items since a brick and mortar store needs to have items on display that potential customers can look at and handle.
 

el_37

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RE OPB Wrap- had a conversation with Jack Lawton about ten years ago about the 60’s Style reissued wrap. He said you have to go through many sheets from the same batch to find ones that look period correct.
 

K.O.

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RE OPB Wrap- had a conversation with Jack Lawton about ten years ago about the 60’s Style reissued wrap. He said you have to go through many sheets from the same batch to find ones that look period correct.
The way this stuff is made (thin sheets sliced off a large block) it's very possible, even probable, that there will be sheets that are a better or worse match depending on what part of the block they came from. As expensive as the stuff is it doesn't appear that anyone is willing to toss out the lesser sheets and only use the good stuff. So it's kind of a crap shoot as to what you might get unless you were able to (and allowed to) go to the source and select the sheets you wanted to use. Not really an option for me. In the case of a manufacturer they need to use their entire supply, regardless, so again a crap shoot. I know in the case of the Starr Fest drums they did set aside better looking pieces as they came across them until they had enough for the 15 drums. It doesn't look like that policy applies to these Legacy series Jazz Fests.

Again, I think I lucked out big time on this purchase as it could have just as easily looked like the other one pictured above, pretty drum but not really much of a match.

If I'd wandered into Cascio's store (which I have been to, it's a bit over 2 hours from me) and had seen this drum on the floor I might have sprung for the whole $759 due to the wrap.Again a lucky break, buying it sight unseen (the auction used a stock photo) at a reduced price and getting a "gem".
 

idrum4fun

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K.O.!! I was watching this exact drum and just couldn't make up my mind on pulling the trigger. Given Cascio's currrent status, I just wasn't sure I'd get a drum in the condition I would hope for. I sent them a message and they confirmed that the drum was as near to new as could be. Well, by that time the drum was sold. I'm happy to know that you are the one that got it!

Concerning the muffler issue. Is this still the Canopus version, or from another vendor? Does it use the 3-position mechanism? I installed a Canopus muffler on my Classic Maple Jazz Fest-style snare drum. I believe that the BB handle did go all the way around before mounting into the drum. No issues at all in actual use!

Congrats on obtaining this drum. I'm really glad you're the one that got it!

-Mark
 

K.O.

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K.O.!! I was watching this exact drum and just couldn't make up my mind on pulling the trigger. Given Cascio's currrent status, I just wasn't sure I'd get a drum in the condition I would hope for. I sent them a message and they confirmed that the drum was as near to new as could be. Well, by that time the drum was sold. I'm happy to know that you are the one that got it!

Concerning the muffler issue. Is this still the Canopus version, or from another vendor? Does it use the 3-position mechanism? I installed a Canopus muffler on my Classic Maple Jazz Fest-style snare drum. I believe that the BB handle did go all the way around before mounting into the drum. No issues at all in actual use!

Congrats on obtaining this drum. I'm really glad you're the one that got it!

-Mark
I pondered asking Cascio for some pictures before buying but worried that some one else would jump on it in the meantime so I took a chance...and for once was rewarded.
 

Buffalo_drummer

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I pondered asking Cascio for some pictures before buying but worried that some one else would jump on it in the meantime so I took a chance...and for once was rewarded.
They won't take pictures, I was watching a Raw Brass snare they had on super-sale. I asked to see the actual drum since they vary in appearance. I was told they don't have the staff to go to the warehouse and take pictures.
 

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