header.nohb.html

New member - digging my '78 BDP Ludwigs out of storage!

TheFuzz

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
Messages
5
Reaction score
18
Location
Utah, USA, Earth
Good morning all. New member here, so I thought I'd introduce myself and my Ludwig kit (apologies in advance, but I tend to write REALLY long intro posts, so grab some caffiene and have a seat, lol). I got these drums when I was 12 years old, which was 27 years ago now. Bought them from the drummer of the church that my family used to attend while I was growing up, who also happened to be a relative. Played it almost every day for ten years until I got married, then into storage it went...tough to fit a drumset into a tiny apartment with a new wife, let alone play it with neighbors, paper-thin walls and the first of three kiddos on the way. Fast forward 17 years later, and we finally just moved to a big enough place that I have my own office/music room. Naturally, my drums were one of the first things I dug out! I'm a prior service USAF machinist/welder, and over the last ten years I've gotten into machinery restorations and have been working on building up my own little modest home machine shop. Let me tell you...applying the same techniques/methods to clean up these old drums and do a little research on them has been eye-opening for me. I really had no idea what I owned, I just knew it was a really cool looking Ludwig drum kit. Teenagers (and young adults) are clueless. :icon_lol:

So, here's what I know - or rather, what I'm relatively confident about. It's a Ludwig 5-piece kit with black diamond pearl wrap (glued, no rivets) and six-ply shells. The mounted toms are 12" and 13", the floor tom is 16", and the bass drum is 22" and came with an original Speed King pedal. It came with what I thought was just a generic chrome snare, but as it turns out, I've owned an LM400 Supraphonic for 27 years without realizing it! All of the drums have the trapezoidal blue/olive Ludwig badges with pointed ends. The serial numbers on the toms and bass drum are all 195XXXX, while the Supra is a 168XXXX. Those numbers, the badge style, the six ply shells and the lack of wrap rivets put these right around 1977-78 production if my research thus far has been accurate. The snare also came with an older style flat bottomed stand with the script Ludwig logo cast into it. The cymbal stands that I got with it are single braced straight stands with the blue/olive Ludwig stickers on them, but they aren't flat bottomed like the snare stand. Not sure if that means the snare is older and was added to the kit later, or if the serial number gap between the snare and the rest of the kit (as well as the different style of stand) is normal for the period. Any Luddy experts, please feel free to chime in.

Anyway, I'd really like to know what the exact model of this kit is, and what it was supposed to come with from the factory...if it's even possible to glean that info from what I have to work with. It came with an older Tama hi-hat stand that works fine for my modest use, but I'd like to source a period-correct Ludwig hi-hat stand as well as a matching boom cymbal stand if possible, just to make the kit as original as possible (that's the restoration side of my brain talking). It had no front head when I bought it and was missing some hardware for the front hoop, so I bought what was available and within my budget at the time...most of which was wrong. The reso head on the bass drum would look great if it didn't have the mis-matched goofy gold trim ring on the port, but I've ordered the correct claws for the front bass head and all new reso/batter heads for the whole kit. The BDP wraps have shrunk and cracked pretty badly, but it's not bad enough to notice unless you're right up close so I'm leaving them as-is for now. The Premier snare inboard from the Supra was actually my first drum, purchased right before I bought the kit. It will also get cleaned up and get new heads eventually.

That concludes the novel, so if you're still reading, thank you! I'm no expert by any means, but I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone and sharing the knowledge I do have with all of you. Thanks again everyone.
 

Attachments

  • Ludwigs.jpg
    Ludwigs.jpg
    54.6 KB · Views: 128

flatwins

DFO Veteran
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
1,928
Reaction score
2,943
Location
Tulsa, OK USA
I can’t be certain but I think Ludwig referred to that configuration as “Hollywood”. Congratulations on getting them back out and welcome aboard!
 

wflkurt

Deafus Maximus
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
10,524
Reaction score
2,665
Location
Chichester NH
I think you pretty much nailed the date on these. I don't think you could get much closer unless you actually knew who the original owner was and they knew when the got them exactly. During the mid 60's until the early 70's, a Hollywood set consisted of the 22,12,13,16 toms with a 5x14 supraphonic snare. Around 1970 or so, Ludwig offered the Big Beat set in addition to the Hollywood. The only real difference was that the Big Beat came with beefier hardware whereas the Hollywood still used the flat based stands that were popular in the 60's. By 1977 Ludwig switched to a six ply shell and the first catalog to show this was catalog '80 (which was printed in 1978). By catalog '80, the Hollywood set was no longer an option and only the Big Beat remained. Between 1977 and 1979-80, that is the period before Ludwig started using the rivets and the badges still had the pointed edges. Your 12" tom has large lugs, which fits the 1978 timeline as the catalog picture I am posting shows the 12" tom with large lugs. I'm sure there isn't all that much difference from a set from 1978-79. I don't know exactly when the rivets and the rounded badges started but I was under the impression that it was sometime in 1979. Your set looks to be in great shape.


1669751610237.png
 

Sonar Dave

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
353
Reaction score
298
Welcome to the forum and a BIG welcome back to drumming. So you were about 5 yrs old when those drums were born. I can't really help with the Ludwig, being mostly a Tama / Sonor guy. They look llike nice tubs.
 

TheFuzz

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
Messages
5
Reaction score
18
Location
Utah, USA, Earth
I think you pretty much nailed the date on these. I don't think you could get much closer unless you actually knew who the original owner was and they knew when the got them exactly. During the mid 60's until the early 70's, a Hollywood set consisted of the 22,12,13,16 toms with a 5x14 supraphonic snare. Around 1970 or so, Ludwig offered the Big Beat set in addition to the Hollywood. The only real difference was that the Big Beat came with beefier hardware whereas the Hollywood still used the flat based stands that were popular in the 60's. By 1977 Ludwig switched to a six ply shell and the first catalog to show this was catalog '80 (which was printed in 1978). By catalog '80, the Hollywood set was no longer an option and only the Big Beat remained. Between 1977 and 1979-80, that is the period before Ludwig started using the rivets and the badges still had the pointed edges. Your 12" tom has large lugs, which fits the 1978 timeline as the catalog picture I am posting shows the 12" tom with large lugs. I'm sure there isn't all that much difference from a set from 1978-79. I don't know exactly when the rivets and the rounded badges started but I was under the impression that it was sometime in 1979. Your set looks to be in great shape.


View attachment 595008
Fantastic information, thank you! I actually downloaded a few PDFs of older Ludwig catalogs, but couln't find anything for 1978, only 1980...which irked me a little at first but now makes perfect sense. I had wondered if it was a Hollywood kit or a Big Beat kit since it has a mix of flat and single braced hardware, but you seem to have cleared that up as well. I'm thinking at this point that the Supraphonic itself is original to the kit, but the stand is from an older Hollywood kit since it's flat-bottomed. Probably just got swapped out at some point for one reason or another before I got my hands on the kit. Other than the cracking/shrinking on the wraps, it really is in beautiful shape. The wraps are still glossy with tons of depth to them...and to be honest, that BDP finish is the whole reason I fell in love with the kit in the first place. I saw it up on stage at church and remember staring at it all through service every Sunday for months. Pretty amazing that it ended up being mine. When Dan (the drummer) found out I was interested in learning the drums, he said he'd been eyeballing a new kit and would sell me the Ludwigs. I was over the moon excited, and my parents could tell. We paid $250 for the shells and hardware back in 1995, which was a lot of money for a 12 year old to come up with...but I swore to my parents that I'd do chores with no allowance for a year, and they could also count it as my birthday and christmas present that year plus whatever else I had to work off to make it happen. They agreed and bought the drums for me, and here we are today nearly three decades later. Come to find out that the Supraphonic alone is probably worth more than we paid for the entire kit! It's been a really fun couple of months getting these set back up and doing some research on them. Really excited to slap on some new heads and find out how out of practice I am. :icon_lol: Thanks again!
 

TheFuzz

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
Messages
5
Reaction score
18
Location
Utah, USA, Earth
Welcome to the forum and a BIG welcome back to drumming. So you were about 5 yrs old when those drums were born. I can't really help with the Ludwig, being mostly a Tama / Sonor guy. They look llike nice tubs.
Thank you! I was -5, lol. Born in '83, so these drums pre-date me a little bit. I'm ok with that, I prefer classic stuff. The oldest thing I own is a Zippo lighter made in 1919 that I found in our pond back in the 90's...by stepping on it and slicing my foot open. My metal lathe is a 1953 Logan, my variable speed drill press is a Rockwell from 1969, one of my toolboxes is a Wards PowrKraft 7-drawer cabinet (made by Remline) with a 1968 date code, my snap-on box is from the mid 70s...older stuff was just built better in most cases. The 70s were hit or miss but I think I got lucky for the most part!
 

Houndog

DFO Star
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
11,037
Reaction score
14,970
Location
Oklahoma City
Welcome to the forum , that’s a wonderful story about your kit ….

I’m a big fan of BDP kits myself !!!!
 

katulu

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2021
Messages
372
Reaction score
532
Welcome and hope you enjoy your drums again! Nice BDP kit AND free Supra!
 

CherryClassic

DFO Master
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
3,564
Reaction score
1,084
Location
Buda, Texas
Welcome to the forum, love the drums and the color. I wanted either Black or the Blue Diamond Pearls back in the day. I never had either but ended up with Rogers Blue Sparkle.

BTW: I still have a Premier flat base cymbal stand from 1963. The legs would fold up for transport and were heavy duty with a locking threaded bolt and flange that held the legs in place screwing up from the bottom. I hope that description makes since. LOL

sherm
 

jccabinets

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 2, 2013
Messages
1,426
Reaction score
967
Welcome!
I enjoy long posts, too many are so short and abbreviated I don't know what they are talking about.
Lots of drums have gone into storage due to a marriage so join the club. I have a black diamond pearl kit with keystone badges and love it.
Lots of great knowledgeable folks here, you picked the right forum.

Jeff C
 

TMDRUMS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2022
Messages
101
Reaction score
142
Location
Morehead City, NC
I think you pretty much nailed the date on these. I don't think you could get much closer unless you actually knew who the original owner was and they knew when the got them exactly. During the mid 60's until the early 70's, a Hollywood set consisted of the 22,12,13,16 toms with a 5x14 supraphonic snare. Around 1970 or so, Ludwig offered the Big Beat set in addition to the Hollywood. The only real difference was that the Big Beat came with beefier hardware whereas the Hollywood still used the flat based stands that were popular in the 60's. By 1977 Ludwig switched to a six ply shell and the first catalog to show this was catalog '80 (which was printed in 1978). By catalog '80, the Hollywood set was no longer an option and only the Big Beat remained. Between 1977 and 1979-80, that is the period before Ludwig started using the rivets and the badges still had the pointed edges. Your 12" tom has large lugs, which fits the 1978 timeline as the catalog picture I am posting shows the 12" tom with large lugs. I'm sure there isn't all that much difference from a set from 1978-79. I don't know exactly when the rivets and the rounded badges started but I was under the impression that it was sometime in 1979. Your set looks to be in great shape.


View attachment 595008
Wow...you know your Ludwig history! As a teenage kid, I use to drool over the mid to late 70's Luddy catalogs wishing I had the cash to purchase one of these fine kits.
 

cornelius

DFO Veteran
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
1,598
Reaction score
639
Great kit - nice to see that you held on to it over the years. It looks around a '78 give or take a year - the big spurs and those nice Hercules stands would probably be around '78 I think. That '80 catalogue was probably confusing - I remember when it came out, which was '78, the year I started playing.

Enjoy the drums - great, classic set!
 

flatwins

DFO Veteran
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
1,928
Reaction score
2,943
Location
Tulsa, OK USA
Welcome to the forum, love the drums and the color. I wanted either Black or the Blue Diamond Pearls back in the day. I never had either but ended up with Rogers Blue Sparkle.

BTW: I still have a Premier flat base cymbal stand from 1963. The legs would fold up for transport and were heavy duty with a locking threaded bolt and flange that held the legs in place screwing up from the bottom. I hope that description makes since. LOL

sherm
Probably looks similar to this on the bottom of the stand. During WWII Premier tooled up to do a lot of casting for the British military and after the war they used the expertise to revamp their hardware line .
 

Attachments

  • 47767267-24F8-445B-B935-B25DC4FF4B78.jpeg
    47767267-24F8-445B-B935-B25DC4FF4B78.jpeg
    28.7 KB · Views: 10

CherryClassic

DFO Master
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
3,564
Reaction score
1,084
Location
Buda, Texas
Probably looks similar to this on the bottom of the stand. During WWII Premier tooled up to do a lot of casting for the British military and after the war they used the expertise to revamp their hardware line .
Yes very similar, except on mine the underside flange is much wider and cast into a one piece bolt that screws up into the bass. The thread is so fine it seems to take for ever opening and closing enough space for the legs to clear when it time to fold them.

sherm
 

CherryClassic

DFO Master
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
3,564
Reaction score
1,084
Location
Buda, Texas
Yes very similar, except on mine the underside flange is much wider and cast into a one piece bolt that screws up into the bass. The thread is so fine it seems to take for ever opening and closing enough space for the legs to clear when it time to fold them.

sherm
BTW: I'm about to put it back in service for a ride cymbal. Using parts from my big kit, I'm developing a quick set up kit for extra small venues. My 16x18 FL was converted to a bass, I can rail mount a 10 or 12 RT in combo with a 14 or 16 FT. That little Premier cymbal stand will be perfect for that scenario.

sherm
 

TheFuzz

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
Messages
5
Reaction score
18
Location
Utah, USA, Earth
Well, just cleaned up the Supraphonic and put a fresh set of Weathermasters on it, along with a new set of Ludwig 18-strand '63 snare wires and fresh cord. It's an absolute beauty and sounds incredible now - best it's sounded since I've owned it. The old Remo's are the heads that were on it when I bought it...and who knows how old they were back then! I didnt take any "before" pictures so the only reference I have are stills from a video I was recording. Even so, I think you can get the idea. Quite an amazing transformation if I do say so myself.
 

Attachments

  • kmc_20221122_200307.jpg
    kmc_20221122_200307.jpg
    45.2 KB · Views: 14
  • kmc_20221122_200409.jpg
    kmc_20221122_200409.jpg
    54.7 KB · Views: 11
  • kmc_20221122_200436.jpg
    kmc_20221122_200436.jpg
    54.1 KB · Views: 12
  • Screenshot_20221129_215629_YouTube.jpg
    Screenshot_20221129_215629_YouTube.jpg
    31.4 KB · Views: 13
  • Screenshot_20221129_215749_YouTube.jpg
    Screenshot_20221129_215749_YouTube.jpg
    31.4 KB · Views: 13

flatwins

DFO Veteran
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
1,928
Reaction score
2,943
Location
Tulsa, OK USA
BTW: I'm about to put it back in service for a ride cymbal. Using parts from my big kit, I'm developing a quick set up kit for extra small venues. My 16x18 FL was converted to a bass, I can rail mount a 10 or 12 RT in combo with a 14 or 16 FT. That little Premier cymbal stand will be perfect for that scenario.

sherm
I have a time capsule Premier kit from the early 50s with the original hardware. Those stands are pretty cool. Compact little things.
 

Attachments

  • 854482C1-86E9-4F88-8ED0-CFD6E4E6D455.jpeg
    854482C1-86E9-4F88-8ED0-CFD6E4E6D455.jpeg
    58.4 KB · Views: 11

CherryClassic

DFO Master
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
3,564
Reaction score
1,084
Location
Buda, Texas
I have a time capsule Premier kit from the early 50s with the original hardware. Those stands are pretty cool. Compact little things.
WoW, early 50's? That looks like mine I think it was purchased in '63 maybe '62. Sure didn't change much over the years did they? They're strong little stands.

Nice looking kit!! And I like the bass drum spurs. LOL

sherm
 
Last edited:

TheFuzz

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
Messages
5
Reaction score
18
Location
Utah, USA, Earth
I have a time capsule Premier kit from the early 50s with the original hardware. Those stands are pretty cool. Compact little things.
Beautiful kit! I've always loved the vintage Premier stuff...right before I got my Ludwigs, I really wanted a Premier kit. As a 12 year old though, a new kit was way out of my budget (and back then things like FB marketplace, craigslist, etc hadn't even been thought of yet, so used options weren't terribly easy to find for a kid). My very first drum was the Premier snare pictured in the OP - my parents had heard me talking about Premier drums and bought that one for me to get started with, although I don't think they fully understood how loud a snare drum would be, even by itself. :icon_lol:
 


Top