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New Recording Custom Owners: Any YESS tom choking?

Treviso1

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New Recording Custom Owners: Are you experiencing any YESS mounts tom choking phenomenon that so many of us experienced with the MIJ version? I haven't heard a single owner speak of this issue thus far and I would love to hear from new, China Made Recording Custom owners how they are finding their rack toms to be singing while mounted on their mounts vs when the drum is just held in the hand and struck? Please do tell...
 

DanRH

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I haven't noticed any choking on my newer RC's Rob.
 
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RickP

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Murat has had a couple Yamaha RC kits in his shop and I have been able to check them out and no issue with chocking at all.
 

ludwig402

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Don't know if it's the same YESS as on the RCs, but I had a newer Stage Custom set with a choking problem.
One tom on the double tom holder was fine, but once both were mounted, some serious choking.
 

hefty

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None to speak of on my Live Customs which have that mount too. This is on a 12" tom.
 

Treviso1

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Forumites, I know that there are more owners here than have responded...I am reaching out to you! Please do tell how the rack toms are singing with the YESS system on the new recording customs coming out of China?
 

TDM

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Treviso1 and Everyone,

The key thing is you cannot judge if the YESS mount is choking a given drum until you REMOVE the mount from the drum. Listen to the drum with the mount removed. Now, put the YESS mount back on. Listen to the drum again. You will hear a huge difference. Drummers often associate a shorter, drier, pre-EQed sound with certain Yamaha drums, such as Club Custom and Recording Custom. I can tell you from having done it, if you take the YESS mounts off those drums, the drums sound completely different and open up considerably. The first time I removed YESS mounts from a Club Custom kit, I was shocked at how much more resonant the drums became. For those who say "who needs the extra sustain because we just dampen it anyway". No, it's not just extra sustain. Rather, the fundamental note becomes more pure, the bottom end becomes fuller, and the entire sound of the drum becomes more coherent. Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself!
 

DanRH

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TDM said:
Treviso1 and Everyone,

The key thing is you cannot judge if the YESS mount is choking a given drum until you REMOVE the mount from the drum. Listen to the drum with the mount removed. Now, put the YESS mount back on. Listen to the drum again. You will hear a huge difference. Drummers often associate a shorter, drier, pre-EQed sound with certain Yamaha drums, such as Club Custom and Recording Custom. I can tell you from having done it, if you take the YESS mounts off those drums, the drums sound completely different and open up considerably. The first time I removed YESS mounts from a Club Custom kit, I was shocked at how much more resonant the drums became. For those who say "who needs the extra sustain because we just dampen it anyway". No, it's not just extra sustain. Rather, the fundamental note becomes more pure, the bottom end becomes fuller, and the entire sound of the drum becomes more coherent. Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself!
I will try this with my Club Custom 12".
 

TDM

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DanRH said:
I will try this with my Club Custom 12".
Awesome, Dan! I'm most curious to see if you get the same results I did. :)
 

TDM

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thewedge said:
With a 13... no difference on or off the mount.
Do you mean playing the drum mounted versus unmounted or removing the YESS mount from the shell? What we're talking about here is removing the YESS mount entirely from the shell, which means you have to take the heads off and remove the mount from inside the drum. I have found the odd drum that does resonate fairly similarly with the YESS mount attached and with the YESS mount removed from the shell. However, far more often than not, removing the mount has a considerable impact on the drum's sound. Note, once you remove the mount, you must put the heads back on, re-tune the drum to its original pitch, hold the drum by its rim (suspending it in the air and allowing it to hang freely), and play the drum.
 

Signals

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Hope this isn't considered as a thread hijack. Anyhoo...

I don't know about the RC's, but I can tell you that there are no issues with the newer Absolute Hybrid Maple mounts. I just bought a kit a few weeks ago, and the toms sound monstrous. -- makes me shudder to think of how they'd sound with clear heads (I'm using coated) and thinner hoops as opposed to the die cast aluminum ones!

My kit is 22x14, 10x7, 12x8 and 16x15. (Yamaha - thanks for going back to 14" bass drums!)
 

thewedge

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TDM said:
With a 13... no difference on or off the mount.
Do you mean playing the drum mounted versus unmounted or removing the YESS mount from the shell? What we're talking about here is removing the YESS mount entirely from the shell, which means you have to take the heads off and remove the mount from inside the drum. I have found the odd drum that does resonate fairly similarly with the YESS mount attached and with the YESS mount removed from the shell. However, far more often than not, removing the mount has a considerable impact on the drum's sound. Note, once you remove the mount, you must put the heads back on, re-tune the drum to its original pitch, hold the drum by its rim (suspending it in the air and allowing it to hang freely), and play the drum.
Don't know but the tom sound ridculous mounted on that YESS mount and attached a post coming out of the bass drum. Sounds massive...and tons of resonance. Can't see why messing around with the mount would produce anything you'd want more than that. Play em and enjoy them...Yamaha did a really good job on the kit (reluctantly admitted).
 

Treviso1

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Hazelwood7 said:
No problem with my new rc's and chocking

I've been waiting for your to chime in, Hazelwood7. I know that you own both the New Recording Custom and the Sakae Almighty Birch (I think that they are called that). How do the drums compare to one another? Also, are the rack toms equally resonant, even though the Sakae use a "RIMS" like mounting system and the Recording Customs use the shell mounted YESS system? Can you give us a little insight into the differences between these two drumsets?
 

DanRH

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Here's a little test of my CC 12". I was holding the drum with and without the mount. Honestly, I barely noticed a difference. Very unscientific, but to me, not enough for me to permanently remove the mount.

Club Custom YESS mount test
 

xsabers

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DanRH said:
Here's a little test of my CC 12". I was holding the drum with and without the mount. Honestly, I barely noticed a difference. Very unscientific, but to me, not enough for me to permanently remove the mount.

Club Custom YESS mount test
Could be due to unrelated factors, but the second example sounded like it had a more traditional downward pitch bend. That could be due to the shell and heads exciting one another without the mount's influence. Whether that translates to an audible quality to the mic or the audience is questionable.
 

TDM

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xsabers said:
Could be due to unrelated factors, but the second example sounded like it had a more traditional downward pitch bend. That could be due to the shell and heads exciting one another without the mount's influence. Whether that translates to an audible quality to the mic or the audience is questionable.
I'm glad everyone here seems to have no problems with their YESS mounts. What I can say for myself is all the YESS systems I've used have caused very audible choking and tuning problems. And when I removed the YESS mounts, those problems went away, entirely. Case in point, the Club Custom kit I mentioned. With its YESS mounts installed, the toms had short decay, lacked focus to their notes, and lacked fullness in the bottom end. Equally importantly, I found the drums hard to tune, specifically due to odd overtones and the lack of focused notes. When I removed the YESS mounts, all these problems went away and the drums took on an entirely new and, in my opinion, better sonic character.

Granted, I'll add the following caveat. This applies to all drums, not just to Yamaha. Some shells are very persnickety and it doesn't take much to choke them. Other shells, no matter what you do, are almost impossible to choke. I've had toms where it doesn't matter what mounting system is used (direct shell mounts, RIMS, single-sided isolation mounting system, etc.) because the drums always sound full and always have full duration. Perhaps it has been my bad luck, but I have not found this with drums I've used with various YESS mounts. The YESS mounts, whether they be the original design or the newer three point design, have caused audible problems. On my current Yamaha MCA kit, despite many adjustments to its YESS mounting system, the 10 inch tom is always somewhat choked. If I remove the YESS mount, this drum sounds much fuller and is considerably easier to tune.
 

PerfectImposter

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I find TDM's points interesting, and it brings to mind a question I've had for a long time but have never really tried to get an answer to. Do drum companies typically have physicists or engineers on staff to help with the design process?
 

TDM

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PerfectImposter said:
I find TDM's points interesting, and it brings to mind a question I've had for a long time but have never really tried to get an answer to. Do drum companies typically have physicists or engineers on staff to help with the design process?
Whether certain drum companies do or do not have physicists and engineers on staff is difficult, if not impossible, to answer. This is likely an internal matter and not something that is published, for various reasons. However, I do know once you train your ears and take an objective, empirical, make no assumptions approach, it's easy to hear certain things.

For example, in the thread on the new Yamaha Tour Custom Maple kits, there is a video demonstrating these kits. I can hear the effects of the YESS mounts on these drums, because I've experienced this and tested drums with and without these mounts installed many times.

Listen to the 10 inch tom in the video. Hear how its tonal center is thin, the decay is truncated, and there are quite a few overtones? Now of course, this could be due to tuning and room acoustics, but I've experienced that sound so frequently with YESS mounts that I'd be surprised if the mounts are not a factor. Remove those mounts and I suspect that tom will sound very, very different.

Does the 10 inch tom in the video sound good? In some ways it sounds great and unless you do a before and after test to hear the difference, you'd never know. However, once you do hear the difference (and I have), myself, I know which sound I prefer, and that's the fuller, purer, more resonant sound with the YESS mount removed. I suspect the 12 inch tom would sound fuller (too) with its YESS mount removed.

To Everyone, please don't misunderstand my intent. I'm not criticizing Yamaha and the quality of Yamaha's drums. I own Yamaha drums and there is a reason for this. Yamaha's drums are top quality and Yamaha's service is equally superb. Still, my goal is the pursuit of sound and an understanding of factors that impact the sound. If removing YESS mounts gets me to where I want to get to, then I'll remove them!

Here is the video:

Yamaha Tour Custom Drums - Drumeo
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