New Ride With This Sound?

tbird8450

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Hi,

I'm very nearly almost content and finished with ride cymbals (famous last words). There's one sound left that I'm on the hunt for, and the first cymbal in this video has it:


Evidently it's an old 20" A Hollow Block Stamp. I don't need quite that much sizzle, so it may or may not be a situation that calls for rivets, but in terms of overall tone / pitch / sound signature, what's out there on the new market that could be close? I found a couple vintage examples on Reverb in decent shape that might work, but I'm a weirdo and prefer to waste money on brand new gear. I tried listening to a few modern As (not all of them yet) and haven't stumbled onto anything close enough so far. I found a K Con that is almost there, but the wash on it was way too much.

Thanks.
 

Seb77

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The right A Avedis ride might be close, especially in feel. maybe the right A medium ride or one of the Take Five replicas. Another slightly old-A-like ride that rarely gets talked about is the Sabian AAX Memphis ride. 21" though.

Sometimes I find it helpful to listen to cymbal soundfiles on small laptop speakers (did this with your reference soundfile, for lack of bigger speakers or head phones): you only hear the overtones, and those to me are the singature, the DNA of a cymbal that make some cymbals sound similar in context. The bell/bridge tones determine the way a cymbal sits in the band. The low tones underneath might be different, but you don't hear those (much) in the context of a band.
 

Jonnymac

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Aside from the real thing, the right 20 K Con may be the one.

Look for one in a slightly heavier weight maybe

As said above, you could try the new “Avedis” 20 but it may be a little lighter, washier, than what you’re looking for.
 
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tbird8450

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The 20" K Con Bounce and Thin High seem to be the closest - some more than others - but I don't know that I'd want to roll the dice on one since they seem to vary quite a bit. Maybe I'll see what Memphis has in stock. I may ultimately end up shooting you a PM if all else fails.
 

JDA

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here's the deal you can't go backwards. Unless you get that cymbal off that guy...
know what I mean? Cymbals are too organic (not clones..) well usually ; )

Best to move forward or on to something other than; will never "be" the same..But that's. Moving forward. Or get a Block stamp when you find one.
 

tbird8450

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Very true!

I think I've been spoiled some by Paiste. They are typically dead-nuts consistent, at least when comparing the same era. Out of the 12 or so I've bought, only one varied significantly from sound files / videos. Oh well, searching for the "one" is half the fun anyway....well, sometimes.
 
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JDA

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They are typically dead-nuts consistent
yes and like everything in life there's the flip side to..
Let's say Paiste makes 5364 sounds of 20" Ride Cymbal.

and you'd want the 5365th../see? Consistency in this sense is limiting/limited/ could be..
 

tbird8450

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maybe the right A medium ride or one of the Take Five replicas
Oh, I just listened to three new Take Five replicas that are currently available. First two...hmm, getting there, but not quite. Third one, ohhhh! It's not exact, but it's by FAR the closest I've found. I may have to snag it. Thanks for the suggestion!
 

owr

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I understand wanting new, but that's usually because the vintage item is in short supply or really up there in $. With vintage A's you have neither of those issues. That one in the video sounded pretty dry to me, if you played it on its own without the backing music it might even sound a bit muted or played out. But that's part of the beauty with those.

Given they are relatively cheap and easy to find, why not get one "temporarily" and to serve as reference until you find the right new cymbal? My guess is that like me you'll soon end up with a bag full of them since nothing seems to do it quite right, and especially not at the price you can get those for.

GLWS!
 

owr

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Also if its the hassle of buying used that gets you (I totally get that) you could probably send that clip to a place like Maxwell's and ask them to pick something out from their stash that matches, or keep you in mind if something comes in. You'll pay up a bit for the service but last time I was in their NYC store a few years back they had piles of 20" Old As, I'm sure they could find something that matches.

Otherwise if you really want new I'd check out some of the Agop traditionals or Mel Lewis models. They'll be more lively but will have the polite wash/sizzle.
 

Sinclair

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Evidently it's an old 20" A Hollow Block Stamp...., but I'm a weirdo and prefer to waste money on brand new gear.
Thanks.
Why would you look for that sound with an expensive new cymbal when what you're after is right in front of you at 1/3 the price. You could buy two 20" Block Stamps (unless you get them from Maxwell) for almost the same price, keep the good one while learning what old A's do. Time to get in the game.
 

tbird8450

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Don't try to bring logic, reason, and responsibility into this now. Yes, I know it's strange...call it OCD if you must, but I'm that way with just about everything. Furniture, cars, hobbies...it's expensive and wasteful, yes. But such is my curse!
 

Old Drummer

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This gets my personal award* for one of the more interesting questions I've encountered on this forum. Although I believe that I can "hear" the cymbal of interest reasonably well, it doesn't leap out to me as especially unique or appealing. Yet, I can't think of a new cymbal that sounds the same.

My inclination would be to look at the Mehmet or Agop traditional series and see if you could find something similar there. However, I haven't personally heard anything in their series that sounds the same. I'm just thinking that they're apparently trying to make traditional cymbals and one might suit.

I also like Seb77's idea of the Take Five cymbal. Yeah, one of those may work. (I don't think a modern A. would.) But then you're buying an intentional copy. That might be fine, but while new, and intentional copy is kind of old too.

You can also get the cymbal you want new by sending the video to Sabian's Custom Shop and asking them to make it for you. I bet they can.

But this doesn't answer the question of what new modern cymbal sounds like this old one. That's an interesting question I can't answer, and it puzzles me why. There are hundreds of different rides made and marketed today. You'd think that one or more would mimic this older ride. Probably there are some, but I have no idea what they are.

*My personal award is worthless.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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That sounds like a thin old A. Maybe a 20 med thin high will work. Sustain is due to rivets. It may sound different without rivets (and possibly worse!).
Maybe reach out to the video owner/player to get the weight of it and report back?
 

hsosdrum

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Although you've probably already checked out Memphis Drum Shop's entire online Zildjian inventory, after A/B-ing the videos side-by-side this one struck me as having a very similar combination of clang and sizzle (allowing for its lack of rivets) as the original:

 

tbird8450

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Yeah, that crash ride is definitely in the ballpark. I had them on the short list but the current samples that are up on Memphis are less close to the mark. The 20" Avedis isn't bad, either, but it just doesn't have enough of a similar feel / sparkle to my ears. The closest match to me remains a specific Take Five reissue ride (others I listened to, not so much). I think I'm going to go for it.
 
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Seb77

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Yeah, that crash ride is definitely in the ballpark. I had them on the short list but the current samples that are up on Memphis are less close to the mark. The 20" Avedis isn't bad, either, but it just doesn't have enough of a similar feel / sparkle to my ears. The closest match to me remains a specific Take Five reissue ride (others I listened to, not so much). I think I'm going to go for it.
If money is no object, go for it! It's rare that a cymbal really speaks to you. I got some old As from Maxwell's, for more than their normal (ebay etc.) price, but they spoke to me, and they all vary, so you never know what you get, or when another one like that comes up again.

That A crash ride is a bit on the high side, but cool to see they make a cymbal like that today, that's the type of cymbal I have three 60s specimens of. Larger bell than a medium ride I think? (the meidum ride can be very nice too, since 2013 when they improved a lot imo).

Asking the owner for weight is agood idea, The video is from cymbalholic member Base, not sure if he's on here as well (or if he used to be here and left?).
 


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