Newb Paiste question from a collector

Toast Tee

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Ok, I'm not too proud to ask this question, as I'm a Paiste player, with a rather large collection.
I should know this, but I'm not a "China" cymbal guy. I have my 18 inch 2002 china, and a 16 Zil Oriental, and that's the extent.

So today I picked up 3 sigs. 2 of wich I never played. A 17 inch Mellow crash, and a 20 inch Sig China. (I also got a 16 full)
I went searching for 20 inch Sig China, and couldn't find any 20's? Not on Google, Reverb, Sweetwater, or Ebay
Is that a rare size for a Sig series China? Was it only made a couple years?
All 3 cymbals are in excellent condition, and got a sweet deal. The mellow is as described. It's a 17 mellow crash. The 16 full sounds amazing, and the 20 inch China sounds incredible, although very much different than the 18 2002 (I love that cymbal!)
What is up with a 20 inch Signature China?
I'll have to put the Mellow in my mix to see if I like it. Low to med volume, not much attack, but rather fades in, and out.
I can't justify keeping many more, and looks like the 16, and 17 will go. Although, I don't have much use for the 20 China.
 

bongomania

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Paiste discontinues models almost as fast as they make them. Plus they have let a ton of Sig prototypes out on the market.
 

Toast Tee

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Paiste discontinues models almost as fast as they make them. Plus they have let a ton of Sig prototypes out on the market.
So the Sig 20 China was discontinued?
Shame, that's a nice sounding China!
I wasn't super impressed with the Mellow, but I won't be able to tell until it's on the kit.
The Full isn't going anywhere. I love that line!
 

zenstat

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Did you search lots of places for info on the 20" but not the one place which has quality information?


The lowest level entries are still being fleshed out. The type portal is also a good place to get comparative info


Paiste discontinues models almost as fast as they make them. Plus they have let a ton of Sig prototypes out on the market.
When I've finished the Zildian section of the wiki we will at last be able to test the oft repeated assertion that Paiste discontinue a greater proportion of series and models than Zildjian do.

 

Toast Tee

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Did you search lots of places for info on the 20" but not the one place which has quality information?


The lowest level entries are still being fleshed out. The type portal is also a good place to get comparative info




When I've finished the Zildian section of the wiki we will at last be able to test the oft repeated assertion that Paiste discontinue a greater proportion of series and models than Zildjian do.

Wise guy huh ;). Nah, honestly while i was trying to see what they go for new, I went through Reverb, etc....You caught me.
It didn't even cross my mind to check there.
Long day, so thanks!
 

zenstat

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Wise guy huh ;). Nah, honestly while i was trying to see what they go for new, I went through Reverb, etc....You caught me.
It didn't even cross my mind to check there.
Long day, so thanks!
I've started adding weights and prices (new and used) to the individual entries. For example


and back on topic for Chinas you will see that it looks like in 1977 Rogers were selling 602 China Type cymbals in 18", 20" and 22" but listing them as if they were 2002 (along with the 602 Dark Rides). I'd love to check the embossed stamp on some of those to see if it also used the other version and doesn't actually say Formula 602.

We still need to add more sound files and images and years when individual models and diameters were discontinued. It takes time to work it all out, but once it is done it will have a permanent home.
 

Toast Tee

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That is great!
I've got a fairly extensive amount of Paistes, some aren't too common, well anymore. How far have you got?
Are there any you may be interested in looking at?
Let me if there's anything, especially from the 70's you might need.
I know there are members who have a whole lot more Paiste, than I do, but I've got a few from every decade (since the late 60's), and would be glad to help
 

bubo

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You also can have a look at some of the discontinued series and models at Paiste official website.

Discontinued Soundfiles, Paiste Official

No worries it ain´t no harmful webwsite, just looks a bit weird at first place.
Navigating through this directory shows a lot of models, produced in the past but dropped for whatever reason.
 

Toast Tee

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Expletive expletive expletive. Wow.
That is insane. Your right. When ya first enter, it feels like a bs site.
That's amazing.
To a future rested, what I wrote makes no sence, unless you check out that site
 

bubo

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You can always navigate to this directory through the "Soundroom" at Paiste official website.
Hyperlink is quite unremarkable, located lower left of the frame.
cheers
 

zenstat

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I've used that repository of sound files for a few years now. I've also found some more which aren't in that directory but somebody cached elsewhere. Files like Traditionals 18" extra thin, 17" Thin Crash (from before they brought it back), 22" Light Swish. It's like a superset of the ones sill online in that directory. This makes me hopeful we may be able to discover some others from different series.

The look of that part of the Paiste site is just what browsers do with file directories. You would see the same layout if you point your browser at your own disk drive.
 

JDA

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Signature China's barely caught on..
that's why there weren't many
timing: too expensive too loud too bright
adding the Thin didn't help much
Market at the time -regular drummers basically- passed
 
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Toast Tee

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Signature China's barely caught on..
that's why there weren't many
timing: too expensive too loud too bright
adding the Thin didn't help much
Market at the time -regular drummers basically- passed
It's nice and dark, and yes loud. I think they would have been better off releasing them today. I really like my 18 2002, and this thin 20 would have to sound increadable to replace it
The 16 Full, is great, as is every full I have, or played.
TBD on the Mellow too.
I can see that 20 being too expensive at the time.
 

JDA

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Right. The timing might have been off..lot of other things _ K Custom Darks, Bosphorus etc- were coming at the same time to market. Confluence of events kind of cloaked ' dis appeared" them..
Not all Paiste "marketing" ideas were/are long term successes; the thinking drummers would abandon 2oo2 for the 3000 the Signature alloy initially a landmark revolution monumental revelation (according to ) 20 + years later, we've the old Formula 602 resurrected and a Turkish hybrid Twentys (whatever they are called) are hot. hot. err hot. Paiste has to throw things out there to see " if they'll stick" sometimes.
 
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Toast Tee

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Right. The timing might have been off..lot of other things _ K Custom Darks, Bosphorus etc- were coming at the same time to market. Confluence of events kinda ' dis appeared" them..
At worse, it still looks pretty lol.
 

JDA

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Yes, Paiste pretty much owns the "looks" category. Always been able to notice them a mile away. (lol)
 

Toast Tee

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Agreed. Did you have one?
My expectations are dropping fast.
I don't sell gear, and rarely talk about price, but I got all 3 of the cymbals for $350. I have enough cymbals, and may start unloading some. I have doubles, and triples of the ones I like best. My 70's 2002's, and 602's will be staying as well
If I decide to clear some out. There's a couple snare drums I've had my eye on.
 

JDA

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No Sir I passed. I had a few other model Signatures (Rides, Crashes and hats) bought new late 90s and early 00's.
I was also deep into Sound Creations then that all fell apart.

Today I have a used car yard lot full (9) of high mileage ps 602s for when that Swiss bug hits.
I understand Paiste. I consider them as legitimate as Avedis and Turkish Ks...
 
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Toast Tee

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I really like the ps 602's I have. The medium weight 18's make an amazing cymbal, for any need.
Imo, there's a Paiste that will sound far better to my ear, than anything I've heard from any other company. I know people go nuts over some of the older Zildjans, and whatnot. I just find them extremely inconsistent, and never really liked the tone. If I want a dark ride that can do it all, ya can't beat a 24 GB. Something brighter 2002's. I'm fine just using Full Sig crashes, 2002's, 602' etc...
For hats, I've yet to hear anything a sweet as the 15 SE, and if I don't want my hats dominating my mix, I'll grab 14 2002's, or 14 Sigs as they sound great too.
I know there are some great Zildjans out there, as I've heard some top drummers using them, but they'd get to use as many as they wanted, until they found the one.
The ave drummer doesn't have that luxury
 


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