Newbie Questions - 1967 Ludwig Hollywood

count_me_in

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Hi everyone, I've been a longtime lurker on here since I began my quest to assemble a nice vintage kit within my budget. More recently, I feel I hit the jackpot by finding myself a 1967 Ludwig Hollywood in champagne sparkle. The drums appear to me to be in fantastic condition (and I may share in a more lengthy write-up in the near future), but for now I am taking my time to give them a proper cleanup, and I come to you experts seeking wisdom and advice!

First, the kit as a whole, as received:

full kit.jpg


Most of the hardware is in wonderful condition, but I went ahead and removed everything so that I could give a proper clean to both the hardware and the shells. This lead me to Question One:

When I removed the bass drum spur mounts, each one had this odd looking washer-type thing in it (one fell out upon removal, the other stayed put although I suspect it's not in its proper place).

spur_mount_washer.jpg


And here it is as seen still inside the mount:

spur mount.jpg


Can anyone tell me the proper placement for that little washer-ring piece for when I re-assemble them to the shell? The bass drum has the fold-up style spurs with the bend in them. I am unsure if that washer piece should be in the space in front of or behind the middle ball-in-socket channel that the spur inserts through.


My next question is in regards to the Floor Tom leg mounts.

FT_Leg_mount_washers.jpg



I noticed that when I removed they had two washers were directly inside the wing nut, both on the outside of the mount. Should one of these washers be on the inside of the mount, and the other on the outside? Neither washer is a split washer, they are both standard so I'm unsure why there might be two stacked directly on top of each other.


And while on the topic of the Floor tom, how would I go about removing the baseball bat muffler to clean that hardware up? I can easily get the bottom screw and nut off, but when I tried using a nut-driver on the outermost nut beside the spring, it didn't seem to want to budge (and I definitely didn't want to force it). Is this the nut that need to be removed, or do I need to use a wrench to loosen the innermost nut against the shell? I thought I took a better photo, but this is all I have currently of it:

muffler.jpg



On to the next question, which is regarding one of the reinforcement rings inside the bass drum. There is a small section where some of the wood has little divots or chips (almost like it's chewed up) for lack of a better term.
bass_re-ring.jpg


Seeing as how most of it's on the face of the ring and not directly on the the edge, it's probably not a major deal, but is there anything I could consider doing to preserve it as is and prevent any kind of future damage/wear from occurring? I don't want the wood to slowly disintegrate as a result, so I'm wondering if maybe applying some kind of sealer might be a good idea.

And my last question! Is it recommended that I use any kind of polish on the wrap to help preserve it in it's current condition? It all looks pretty darn good to me, and there's only slight difference in the wrap under the lugs vs the rest of the drum (noticeable more silver sparkle)

Wrap.jpg


In my time on here I know some people recommend Novus (3 types I believe, all progressively more "intense"), and I've also read recommendations for Mother's plastic polish (which I actually happen to have some in spray-on form that I use on my car).

This will very likely be my forever-kit as I'm already in love with it's look and sound even before the clean-up and tune-up (still has some original heads that sound great!), but I want to do my due diligence here and make sure I get everything right on it from the start.

Your advice and input is very much appreciated!
 

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JDA

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I dunno but you're up to $642 in information request..kidding; guys here know EVERYTHING Ludwig.
even down to the hour and day they were built ; ) and whether the builder was right or left handed...
I had a similar used 20/12/12/16/supra (probably from 63-64) black diamond pearl my 1st set for a few years back in 1968..
 

count_me_in

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I dunno but you're up to $642 in information request..kidding; guys here know EVERYTHING Ludwig.
even down to the hour and day they were built ; ) and whether the builder was right or left handed...
I had a similar used 20/12/12/16/supra (probably from 63-64) black diamond pearl my 1st set for a few years back in 1968..
Ha! At that price I guess maybe it wasn't quite the deal I thought it was

My dad played as a kid too and his first kit was a Ludwig back in the 50-60s! And while it seems to me he keeps EVERYTHING, unfortunately the set was long gone before I came along...


Editing to add: I swear I tried searching for all of my questions first (both here and Google/YouTube). Just can't find the answers directly anywhere I've searched.
 
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jptrickster

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I'll take #1. The circlip front or back slot doesn' t really matter as long as your on the spline. although the rear slot may hold better.
PS Dont remove the Drum Shop Tag/sticker, the wrap under it is unfaded.
 

drumtimejohn

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Welcome.

1. don’t recall seeing a plastic/rubber washer in a gull wing spur assembly
2. Two washers is correct. The friction of both allow the mount to actually hold and typically slip with just one
3. If the BB muffler is not broken, consider leaving it. If you must or want to disassemble to clean or just learn about it you’ll find it’s a common sense assembly. The first nut/wash hold the muffler in place. That nut can be be adjusted to stop any sloppiness in the muffler. The second holds the spring. That nut is used to adjust the spring tense. Removing it is easy however returning it can be somewhat challenging when completing against tension. Once the spring is removed the BB handle and threaded shaft are free to be removed. The last portion holds the assembly to the drum. Typically no reason to remove that unless it’s damaged. Recommendation, you’ll not likely use a BB muffler so consider leaving it alone especially if it’s seized.
5. reinforcement ring seems fine and no action needed
4. Yes, polish if you like. I use Mother’s instead of the 1,064 step Novus. Perhaps I’m lazy.

edit: I find most vintage drums have been doing quite well for the past 50s w/o polish. Lastly, JDA will chime in with a kind message to encourage playing over polishing, but on a Gretsch of course.
 
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BRIAN

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Nice drums, great year also...........nice drums......the people on this site can answer any and all questions
 

drumtimejohn

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I recall. I believe the washer stops the leg from falling out of the assembly and is placed in the bracket towards the front of the leg.
1606072251710.jpeg
 

b/o 402

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- I suspect the second washer is on the eyebolt to give you a little more thread to tighten the leg more securely.
- The “chewed up” interior is probably from the ‘70s when a lot of drummers removed bottom heads and nested their toms when loading. Cases? We don’t need no stinking cases!
 

count_me_in

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Whoa, thank you all for the help!

I was actually already able to get the muffler off, those inner nuts just needed a spritz of WD40 to loosen up and then the rest was easy peasy. Took a bunch of photos to remind myself the order of all the parts when they go back on.

Good to know about those two consecutive washers on the leg mounts, I likely would have assumed to put one in, one out, on reassembly.

I suspect a previous owner did at least open one of the drums, as the 13's inside had some gunk to wipe up, the lug screws/muffler hardware was more rusted than on any other spots, and the date stamp has a little smudge to it, though still legible. The kick, FT, and 12" though are still quite immaculate white paint.

I have unfortunately already learned the lesson of the 70s concert tom fad, as my first vintage acquisitions were an auction haul of a Club Date kick, 12", and 14" FT, none of which came with bottom hoops or tensions rods...Those are definitely more of a project that I'm sure I'll get to at some point (then again, maybe not if I never want to stop playing these!).


Lastly, @jptrickster - I have zero intention of taking those store badges off, they were in ProMark founder Herb Brockstein's store! Such an awesome little piece of history! The guy I bought them from did actually remove the badge from one rack tom (which he also gave to me with the tiny tack nails that secured them), and fortunately there is no visible outline above the badge. Who knows how long ago it was removed ‍

Oh, these also came with a set of Humes & Berg fibre cases, and even had the original dusty-as-hell product catalog included!
 
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K.O.

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Two washers is normal, and often necessary to get a good grip on the legs.

On mufflers they would usually jimmy up the threads so that the nut could not unthread and fall off.

That re-ring may have sustained that damage at some point in it's life but might just as easily be "factory" as they were cranking them out at the time and not overly concerned with how the drum interiors looked. The white paint was used to cover up such things.

Novus 3 is for deep scratches and pretty abrasive. Novus 1 is just a cleaner with no abrasives, but Novus 2 is just right for drum wrap. Use it with a 100% cotton cloth, avoid any polyester content as the poly fibers may be harder than the wrap and cause microscopic scratches.

Nice set, Champagne Sparkle is so classy and classic.
 

Tama CW

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I wouldn't even bother with the polish. A washing with dawn soap with water and/or Windex will still make them shine pretty good. Then a layer of liquid wax to make 'em shine more.
Nothing else to do with the kit other than to play them.

Nice kit there.
 

Rockin' Billy

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Welcome.

”And my last question! Is it recommended that I use any kind of polish on the wrap to help preserve it in it's current condition? It all looks pretty darn good to me, and there's only slight difference in the wrap under the lugs vs the rest of the drum (noticeable more silver sparkle)”

If me, I would give the drums a gentle wipe down with Lemon Pledge or the type of dust polish or Novus 2. If a grime or dirty then give a sponge bath with dampened cloth of soapy water using Dawn Dish Detergent then a wipe down rinse. I would then wax with a Cleaner Carnuba wax such as Mother’s or Meguiars.(ALWAYS TEST SMALL AREA FIRST. YOU NEVER KNOW)

I reckon your taking all the heads off, but if not it looks like the reso head on bass drum is cranked down on the right side way more than left...could be the picture but just a heads up.(no pun intended : ) Enjoy.
 

idrum4fun

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Hi count_me_in!

Congrats on your 1967 Hollywood kit! Concerning that one bracket you show, are all the other brackets the same style? I ask because I'm almost certain that the brackets in use in 1967 would have been the beefier version (from inside). I'm including a picture showing two brackets I have so you can see the difference. Both brackets use the same part number... P1216. I would think that your kit would have the brackets as shown on the right. Let us know!

-Mark
 

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el_37

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Novus #2- do this once and you will never not use the product again when cleaning up an old set. You can follow up with Novus #1 if you want, but it really doesn't add a whole lot.
 

Rich K.

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I wouldn't even bother with the polish. A washing with dawn soap with water and/or Windex will still make them shine pretty good. Then a layer of liquid wax to make 'em shine more.
Nothing else to do with the kit other than to play them.

Nice kit there.
Windex and waxed leave a film on wraps. Better off using novus 2
 

count_me_in

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Hi count_me_in!

Congrats on your 1967 Hollywood kit! Concerning that one bracket you show, are all the other brackets the same style? I ask because I'm almost certain that the brackets in use in 1967 would have been the beefier version (from inside). I'm including a picture showing two brackets I have so you can see the difference. Both brackets use the same part number... P1216. I would think that your kit would have the brackets as shown on the right. Let us know!

-Mark
Hey Mark! It actually looks like my brackets are different from both of yours! They don't have that cutout in the partition wall, nor do they have an arc either, they are just a straight and flat. Here's some other pics of them (the ones I removed have the numbers "1" & "6" engraved into the top and bottom sections).

mount brackets.jpg



@K.O. - I do kind of suspect the re-ring is a factory imperfection based on the way the paint strokes appear to have gone smoothly over the markings. Kind of seems like the only bare wood visible is because it was the opposite direction of the paint strokes. It's also not on the bottom but rather up the side of the drum. Either way, I'm fine with it, just wanted to see if there was any risk of future damage by leaving as is!



re-ring closeup.jpg


And again, thank you all for the advice and suggestions! I haven't yet decided what or if to polish the shells yet. I only have Mother's Plastic Polish and Meguire's PlastX on hand, and would have to order some Novus 2 if I wanted to give that a go. I think the wrap already looks pretty good and I've just given them a few solid wipe downs with microfibers at this point. I may just decide to polish though, since I don't know the next time I will have them down to the bare shells again. Hmmm.

Here are a few more shots of the shells and badges:

badges.jpg





Another random question, but does anyone recommend waxing some of the chrome parts after they've been cleaned and polished? Specifically some sections of one spur and one hoop that have a bit of rust and pitting. Just thinking maybe sealing it might be helpful in protecting the metal and help keep it from getting any worse on those few spots.
 

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drumtimejohn

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The bracket p83 is showing (middle) is an earlier era and will likely have just a basic script logo. I have those on my 65s and earlier. They hold a rod in place by set screw rather than an internal eye and external double washer. The latter (yours, on the right), IMO, has a superior hold on the rod for hanging toms/cymbals

1606098298051.jpeg
 

count_me_in

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Awesome, thank you for that info!
The bracket p83 is showing (middle) is an earlier era and will likely have just a basic script logo. I have those on my 65s and earlier. They hold a rod in place by set screw rather than an internal eye and external double washer. The latter (yours, on the right), IMO, has a superior hold on the rod for hanging toms/cymbals

View attachment 471614
 

idrum4fun

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count_me_in!

It appears that your brackets are most likely the first generation AFTER the internally heavier ones. I do have brackets like yours and wondered which came first. So, I can now make an educated guess that Ludwig began changing the P1216 around 1967. Thanks for showing those brackets!

-Mark
 


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