not a jazz drummer but would like to improve in that area- Peter Gunn

Pat A Flafla

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I used to play in a band that had dozens of original TV and Movie arrangements in the book. This was one of them. Anyway, I don't know any shortcuts per-se, but, this + a qualified teacher is the gold standard for learning to play drumset jazz. There is no substitute.


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I was scrolling before posting to see if someone beat me to this.
 

Slingerland3ply

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I used to play in a band that had dozens of original TV and Movie arrangements in the book. This was one of them. Anyway, I don't know any shortcuts per-se, but, this + a qualified teacher is the gold standard for learning to play drumset jazz. There is no substitute.


View attachment 484001
Great book my teacher had me work through most of it!
 

Pedal_Pusher

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It wasn't really a "big band" but I saw Emerson, Lake. and Palmer open a rock concert with a great version of the Peter Gunn theme. This was probably 1975 or so. I imagine most of the audience had no idea of what they were hearing. Anyway, I thought they did a very good job and it might be interesting to listen to their version. Not sure if it made it on a recording but I think I remember that they did that often as a great way to check the sound system. (Now it will be my earworm for the rest of the day, but not a bad tune for that).
 

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This is usually considered the Peter Gunn theme. Clearly 4/4 with straight 8ths or 16ths on the hats. That’s the version my big band plays.
Yeah that is the version we played in my high school.
 

ocgvictoria

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See PM. Let me know if it doesn’t work.
Got it! Thanks! How big is your band? Are you the only drummer, are there other precussionists?
 
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ocgvictoria

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See PM. Let me know if it doesn’t work.
Your Peter Gunn chart is a bit more exciting than the “Happy Holidays” medley we did at Christmas :icon_e_biggrin:
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B75F0322-18CD-4895-B338-3D8276E475A8.jpeg
 
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RIDDIM

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I've been watching some old reruns of this series where Mancini was the music composer. Everyone knows the theme but at the start of each episode they play a little gentle comping song which is about the same each time. Turns out it is called Fallout. If I can just get a little of the gist of that I'd be happy. There is lots of other interesting music on the show too. Here is a link. Anyone know how to play drums on this?
- Based on what I'm hearing, maybe a quarter note ride, feathered bass drum, light (if any) comping on the snare, and ambient micing on the kit.
 

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Maybe this will inspire you...Chapin’s Advanced Techniques book is excellent for independence and jazz beats. It blew my mind when it dawned on me some the hand-foot patterns were paradiddles.

 
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RayB

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Just swinging the spang-a-lang on the ride, and stomping a solid 2 and 4 on hihat. Not much else required there.
Wow, I'm really sorry to be a little negative here; maybe I'm over reacting to, "Just swinging...Not much else required there." I apologize in advance if I offend because I'm sure you guys are fine drummers and probably can do more than me.
In the early 1980s I was in the West End Cafe, near Columbia University, with some of my musician friends. It was the first time any of us saw Jo Jones play drums. He was getting on in years. He had a basic, old fashioned hi hat stand with a pair of thin, weathered cymbals. Jo started his famous hi hat ride softly with his right hand, occasionally adding a little accent with his left hand. I've heard so many drummers play this rhythm; never heard anyone come close to what Jo did. It was like a breeze gently blowing through an open window. You felt it right down to your toes. Had to tap your feet. It wasn't "playing time" or "keeping time"; it was an energy swinging your whole body. We were all blown away, never heard anyone play drums like that. He was playing so softly yet it was so powerful. When Jo Jones and the Count Basie band came out of Kansas City in the 1930s, it was unbelievable someone could swing a band so hard just playing the hi hat. I always heard old timers talk about Jo Jones "swinging you to bad health". It was real; I experienced it and it forever changed my sense of swing. I should add that when Jo moved over to his 20" ride, the sound of the whole ensemble opened up into another level of deep swing.
"Spang-a-Lang" is simple, relaxed, almost effortless. And there's no need to pound 2 and 4. In fact, I think when most rock drummers spang-a-lang, they don't play 1 and 3 the right way. It's a pendulum swinging from 1 to 2, 3 to 4.
As simple as it is, spang-a-lang is the root of everything. You can do Stick Control 8 hours a day, everyday, or the Chapin book or Linear playing; know every lick Bonham and Peart ever played. Won't help you swing. I've heard so many guys with great chops who couldn't swing. Guys who don't swing bore the ---- out of me.
Is it easy to swing? Yeah, but never assume any old spang-a-lang will do. Listen to Jo Jones with Basie, Lester Young, Billie Holiday. Dig what Father Time did. It's deep, it's about the feel of music. The spacing. You don't have to sound retro, but respect the integrity of that swing. It's in rock, funk, reggae, r & b; you start to feel the swing in every groove.
 

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Wow, I'm really sorry to be a little negative here; maybe I'm over reacting to, "Just swinging...Not much else required there." I apologize in advance if I offend because I'm sure you guys are fine drummers and probably can do more than me.
In the early 1980s I was in the West End Cafe, near Columbia University, with some of my musician friends. It was the first time any of us saw Jo Jones play drums. He was getting on in years. He had a basic, old fashioned hi hat stand with a pair of thin, weathered cymbals. Jo started his famous hi hat ride softly with his right hand, occasionally adding a little accent with his left hand. I've heard so many drummers play this rhythm; never heard anyone come close to what Jo did. It was like a breeze gently blowing through an open window. You felt it right down to your toes. Had to tap your feet. It wasn't "playing time" or "keeping time"; it was an energy swinging your whole body. We were all blown away, never heard anyone play drums like that. He was playing so softly yet it was so powerful. When Jo Jones and the Count Basie band came out of Kansas City in the 1930s, it was unbelievable someone could swing a band so hard just playing the hi hat. I always heard old timers talk about Jo Jones "swinging you to bad health". It was real; I experienced it and it forever changed my sense of swing. I should add that when Jo moved over to his 20" ride, the sound of the whole ensemble opened up into another level of deep swing.
"Spang-a-Lang" is simple, relaxed, almost effortless. And there's no need to pound 2 and 4. In fact, I think when most rock drummers spang-a-lang, they don't play 1 and 3 the right way. It's a pendulum swinging from 1 to 2, 3 to 4.
As simple as it is, spang-a-lang is the root of everything. You can do Stick Control 8 hours a day, everyday, or the Chapin book or Linear playing; know every lick Bonham and Peart ever played. Won't help you swing. I've heard so many guys with great chops who couldn't swing. Guys who don't swing bore the ---- out of me.
Is it easy to swing? Yeah, but never assume any old spang-a-lang will do. Listen to Jo Jones with Basie, Lester Young, Billie Holiday. Dig what Father Time did. It's deep, it's about the feel of music. The spacing. You don't have to sound retro, but respect the integrity of that swing. It's in rock, funk, reggae, r & b; you start to feel the swing in every groove.
Totally agree with all of that. Sorry if my post implied that I thought it was easy. I was simply trying to explain the basic sticking/parts of the OP's example. Getting it to feel great is a lifelong process.
 

Rock Salad

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I hear L brush at the beginning and outro. Sticks for the loud middle and some licks in there. No?
Nice, I haven't listened to that in a while. Thanks
 

ocgvictoria

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Totally agree with all of that. Sorry if my post implied that I thought it was easy. I was simply trying to explain the basic sticking/parts of the OP's example. Getting it to feel great is a lifelong process.
I really appreciate both RayB and your response. The musicality of jazz drumming is what separates the men from the boys. Swing is easy but creating it with originality does indeed take a lifetime of learning. And I don’t even want to get into the topic of musicality and jazz fusion :)
 
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David M Scott

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I've been watching some old reruns of this series where Mancini was the music composer. Everyone knows the theme but at the start of each episode they play a little gentle comping song which is about the same each time. Turns out it is called Fallout. If I can just get a little of the gist of that I'd be happy. There is lots of other interesting music on the show too. Here is a link. Anyone know how to play drums on this?
That's a straight 4/4 Jazz set. I note that the 2/4 on left hand is with the odd exception pretty well
a single stroke not like say Morrello or Philly Joe would play it. As you can hear the Ride is the main sound. I'm guessing it has rivets which were the in thing during that time period or it might have been Turkish. So with Jazz the Ride is everything and unless someone writes a very strict chart the left hand can do slaps rolls etc. Variation on the ride patterns, not just 1-1/2 really makes it Jazz. When I do a left hand roll I'll often but not always do the same on the ride. Jazz is not complicated it's a matter of switching your right hand from a closed hat to a ride and dropping the left hand strong back beat for a more subtle approach. And don't fret that you can't play trad grip. There was a video posted here a week or so ago where the Dude played to a BeBop track using matched grip and he covered all the bases big time. You will note on the Vids of the great Jazz drummers that their breaks involve one hand sticking on the toms for accent. Rock is mainly what us old timers called "around the horn" starting at the snare then mounted and finally floor toms. That change over might be a challenge initially but don't over think things. Jazz should flow and be fun to play. I would also state that in my case I tune my drums almost wide open for Jazz or away from the fat sound of Rock settings. Allow the toms and kick to resonate and have some sustain. That insures that those single stick accents on the toms are heard. Just have fun
 

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David M Scott wrote: “When I do a left hand roll I'll often but not always do the same on the ride.”

This is one of the great jazz tricks that always sounds good. Make that ride sound good and the rest of the band will love you. And as you mentioned, strong rudiments on the heads transfer over to the cymbals too. If you listen to the way Morrello plays some of the versions of “Take Five”, hell, they are simple paradiddles on the snare that continue on the ride, even the Tom. Of course, it sounds better when Joe played it :)
 

David M Scott

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David M Scott wrote: “When I do a left hand roll I'll often but not always do the same on the ride.”

This is one of the great jazz tricks that always sounds good. Make that ride sound good and the rest of the band will love you. And as you mentioned, strong rudiments on the heads transfer over to the cymbals too. If you listen to the way Morrello plays some of the versions of “Take Five”, hell, they are simple paradiddles on the snare that continue on the ride, even the Tom. Of course, it sounds better when Joe played it :)
I am always amazed at Joes left hand. I don't hear the best but I'd swear he plays 5s on the 2&4 snare as well as the ride. And everything he did seemed so effortless !
 

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Slight derail. Why do you think there are so many ‘how do I play jazz’ threads as opposed to any other music? Most of us figured out rock on our own but quickly realized it wasn’t that easy either - to sound like our heroes. So what is it?

In this case, it’s also easy but here we are, with players saying do xyz and that will do exactly squat. Or who knows, maybe some typing will do what listening to and playing the music for years and/or learning from teachers has never done – it will bestow some nugget that has never been bestowed. No that won’t happen lol. But really..why so many of these threads. ? I offer no advice because jazz is brain surgery to me and it takes either natural talent and/or years of study yet so many want the ‘for dummies’ version as if that will get them something beyond sucking less. Is sucking less the goal? Wait..yes! that’s always the goal. Nevermind.
 

ocgvictoria

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Give me Joe’s left hand on the snare and Tony Williams right hand on the ride, and I’d play swing with 5s :D:D

I do work on JM’s book occasionally, especially the ostinatos. Yep, now I know why he had such a great left!

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ocgvictoria

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Slight derail. Why do you think there are so many ‘how do I play jazz’ threads as opposed to any other music? Most of us figured out rock on our own but quickly realized it wasn’t that easy either - to sound like our heroes. So what is it?

In this case, it’s also easy but here we are, with players saying do xyz and that will do exactly squat. Or who knows, maybe some typing will do what listening to and playing the music for years and/or learning from teachers has never done – it will bestow some nugget that has never been bestowed. No that won’t happen lol. But really..why so many of these threads. ? I offer no advice because jazz is brain surgery to me and it takes either natural talent and/or years of study yet so many want the ‘for dummies’ version as if that will get them something beyond sucking less. Is sucking less the goal? Wait..yes! that’s always the goal. Nevermind.
I’m brand new to this site so I hadn’t noticed there were a lot of “How do I play jazz” threads. While jazz beats can be easy, good jazz drumming is not. Playing a traditional grip, I find strength in the rudiments, improving hand control, lots of practice with rolls and understanding the charts. But one element of jazz (at least traditional jazz) is that you have to drum while everyone is doing their solo and then bam, it’s time for your solo. You have to think like a guitarist, horn or sax player and blend your sound and groove with the song. The best example I can cite is Joe Morello; a master of technique yet his solos were always musical, a true extension of the song the band members were playing. When I was very young, I played in a Dixieland band and it was a ton of fun. The players were all college professors who taught their instrument full time, and they were good! You know what happens to good jazz players that play everyday? They get faster, their music gets more complex and it gets harder to stick with them. The great jazz drummers improved throughout their career not just their playing skills, but their understanding of the music and how to match the musicality of all the band members. IMO, that’s hard.
 

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David M Scott wrote: “When I do a left hand roll I'll often but not always do the same on the ride.”

This is one of the great jazz tricks that always sounds good. Make that ride sound good and the rest of the band will love you. And as you mentioned, strong rudiments on the heads transfer over to the cymbals too. If you listen to the way Morrello plays some of the versions of “Take Five”, hell, they are simple paradiddles on the snare that continue on the ride, even the Tom. Of course, it sounds better when Joe played it :)
I know I'm going to get a lot of grief for this, it's considered a sacrilege by many members of this forum: I do not think a strong rudimental background helps you swing. I respect Joe Moe
I am always amazed at Joes left hand. I don't hear the best but I'd swear he plays 5s on the 2&4 snare as well as the ride. And everything he did seemed so effortless !
I know I'll get a lot of grief for this, I'm committing a sacrilege: I do not believe a strong rudimental background helps you swing. I respect Joe Morello but I do not consider him an example of a great swinging drummer. Technically excellent, very creative, too, but not in my list of great swinging drummers.
You can look at every pattern as an application of rudiments, it you choose to. You can sit at the pad and do Stick Control until your hands are perfectly even, and then what? I have heard so many drummers with exceptional chops who have way too much point and articulation that their ride is stuff and boring. Of course there are great swinging drummers who have great chops
 


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