Not "getting" Memriloc

Cauldronics

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Ok, maybe the title isn't accurate. I mean I "get" what memriloc is meant to do, but it isn't doing what I think it should. Let me explain.

With the toms setup approximately the way I like (which they won't... I'll get back to that in a moment), the posts that go into the toms noticeably kill resonance and tone. To get the best possible of both, they have to be attached near the longest end of the posts. Doing that makes a reasonable, comfortable setup impossible because the toms are way too far away to reach. Setting them up closer to how I like means the posts are too far into the drums, killing the tone.

I'm sure Rogers built kits with memriloc with the goal that the drums will sound their best regardless of how the user wants to set them up. Because it us quite ingenious, It would suck to not use the memriloc system, but I foresee these rack toms hanging from RIMs in the near future. I don't see another way to get both the ergonomics and tone right for me.

So how are you fellow memriloc users getting on with the hardware? Do you find that the posts kill tone, or is it not a problem for you?

Could something be wrong with these shells for this to happen?
 

amosguy

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Not an issue for me. But if you do not like the length of the rod in the shell, some owners have cut the rod to the length that works for their setup. Pick up a tubing cutter from a hardware store to make a easy and clean cut. You could use a rims mount with the memriloc arm after a cut as well.
 

ThePloughman

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I have had my Big R set since 1979. Over the years since, despite whatever loss of resonance there might be due to the tom arms and the center post mount, these drums have always been complimented for how good they sound. Currently I have 4 Big R kits, although two of those are not going to be kept.
 

xsabers

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Not an issue for me. But if you do not like the length of the rod in the shell, some owners have cut the rod to the length that works for their setup. Pick up a tubing cutter from a hardware store to make a easy and clean cut. You could use a rims mount with the memriloc arm after a cut as well.
I don't think the amount of tubing inside the shell affects resonance. More likely, the amount of tubing still outside the shell is the greatest factor. The higher up on the tube the drum sets, the less vibration will be transferred to the tube causing some choking to occur.
 

FloydZKing

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It sounds to me like you get it fully. This is the reality of M/L mounts. They choke like most tube mounts and it's even worse on the 5 ply M/L sets.

You ears pass the test.

You get it alright. You can either shorter the tubes, mount only at the ends of the tubes, or chuck it altogether. RIMS won't work with the M/L receiver block either. Remove those and you're left with a huge vent in each shell. Take your pick.

I ended up just going 4 pc with the rack on a snare stand. Great sounding drums - tone-robbing mounts.
 

W&A Player

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OK. Let's approach this logically. First, let's assume that you percieve a noticeable "choking" of the sound when the tom mounting arm goes deeper inside the tom. Don't you think that the most innovative and most copied drum designers knew that, too? Isn't it possible that they compensated for this "choking" effect by designing the drums to be more resonant than the optimum without the mounting tube fully inserted in to the tom? More resonance does not automatically equal optimum resonance. I have grown tired of hearing some of our "experts" preaching that invasive tom mounts kill the sound of drums. Altering the sound is not the same as killing the sound. If you want your toms to sound as open as possible, and ring forever, why don't you use extra deep single headed toms with thin heads suspended from wires? Some of us are quite pleased with floor toms on legs and tom mounts such as rail consolettes, Swivomatic, Memriloc, Set-O-Matic, or even the oft maligned Pearl type mounts. Maybe I'm just jealous of people who can determine the pitch of a gnat passing gas at a distance of 50 yards? (Sarcasm fully intended with this post)
 

rhythmace

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I ordered a NOS double tom mount from Dave Drew. I noticed that the length of the tubes was shorter than the single mount that came with my '76 Big R set. Seems they shortened them later on? I want tot try the tip about making a rubber gasket for the tom mount. Ace
 

tommykat1

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Another option that has been said to work very well is to block off the hole in the mount. You can do this with a rubber stopper, grommet or cotton.

My XP8s, personally, sound great. Mine are lacquered drums, and maybe the loss of the wrap helps.
 

DanC

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Stuffing the tubes with something, or plugging the ends, will help.
Cutting the tubes to the length needed will also greatly reduce the problem. (it's easy to find replacement arms for little $) I think Rogers anticipated this being done.

The sets I gig with use Rims mounts on the toms: I modified a M/L mount to fit flat on the Rims plate, and drilled the plate for the bolts in the mount. Also required the arm being cut very short since it would bottom out inside the mount. Not a problem at all and the toms sing.
Also, I covered the holes for the mount by using a piece of duct tape inside the drum.

Rogers did make the tubes shorter in later years, most likely because of this issue.
 

TommyWells

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Memrilok and the Pearl version of this mounting system were the reason that RIMS mounts were invented. The fact is, these systems were invented with no regard to the sound of the drums. Only the concept of being able to set them up consistently the same. I was a Pearl endorser when the new 7/8" tube type mounts were introduced in 1977. They were going to retrofit my drumsets one at a time. After the first set was finished, I was at the cartage warehouse trying to prep the drums for a recording session. My drums that had previously sounded and recorded so great, were choked and had different decay times from drum to drum. Around and around we went. I called my friend Larrie Londin. he was having the same issues. He had cut tubes and filled tubes with caulk and everything else you could think of. Some drums sounded more open if you moved them further onto the tube, and some sounded better further back. I continued to use my session sets that were on the old hex-rod hardware, which also had a nylon bushing in the tom mount. Meanwhile, we tried putting a foam rubber gasket on the inside and outside of the tom mounts on the "memory lock" drums. We also put plastic sleeves around the mounting screws. This was getting pretty close to "isolating " the drum from the hardware. It helped, but was not perfect. I used this system for a couple of years. I used this drumset more as the #3 set, which means that I was still doing records mostly with the drums with the older hardware on them. This set got used more on TV and live shows. Then we heard about a guy in Minneapolis, by the name of Gary Gauger. He was making this thing called a RIMS mount. RIMS mounts flowed into Nashville like you wouldn't believe. :icon_smile:
 

xsabers

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I love that story!
Me too. And apparently, Nashville is a mecca for guys who can determine the pitch of a gnat passing gas at a distance of 50 yards...who knew?

I am thankful that guys with discerning ears have been driving the innovation bus on creating ways to allow drums to speak naturally.
 

thin shell

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The fact is, these systems were invented with no regard to the sound of the drums. Only the concept of being able to set them up consistently the same.

That is exactly what I thought when Caudronics stated:

"I'm sure Rogers built kits with memriloc with the goal that the drums will sound their best regardless of how the user wants to set them up."

I would also add that the move toward "bigger is better" also had a lot to do with it. I am not sure which one came out with the large tube mounts, Pearl or Rogers but eventually Ludwig followed suite with the Modular line and Slingerland eventually copied Pearl's mounts.

Pearl is the only major manufacturer who still uses them although now with some sort of isolation mount. The really low end market is where they are still doing most of their damage.
 

Cauldronics

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Whether or not the tom mount receivers are on the shells wouldn't bother me, but I might very well end up putting these on RIMs. I have two other kits where the mounts were removed, exposing holes and they sound great on RIMs.

However, I'm going to try cutting down the tubes to the needed length first. About 75% of the tubes would be cut down in this case. I noticed they didn't need to be capped to off to get the tone out when they were near the long end of the posts. In another experiment, when the tubes were almost fully into the shell to accommodate comfortable distances from the playing position, I stuffed floor tom feet into the ends. This made an improvement, although the note didn't reach its full tone. Then I lowered the whole tom rack into the bass drum and the improvement completely disappeared. In fact, I'd say it was the worst sounding setup yet. All I did was lower the toms. Re-tuning them had no effect. I was a bit baffled.

Another option is Ludwig vibra bands as they include mounting clamps that fit onto stands I already have, although that would mean the memriloc mounts aren't used. I'm used to that setup anyway, so it wouldn't feel like a big loss even though I want to use the M/L.

Anyway, first thing to do is get or borrow a tubing cutter. I found in the wee hours of the morning (night owl here) while I was tinkering away that the rack toms could be setup in a way that I could play long term and be ok with, but as mentioned the tone was absent with the posts well into the toms. Much thanks for helping me think this out, all of you!
 

Cauldronics

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I have had my Big R set since 1979. Over the years since, despite whatever loss of resonance there might be due to the tom arms and the center post mount, these drums have always been complimented for how good they sound. Currently I have 4 Big R kits, although two of those are not going to be kept.
My XP8s, personally, sound great. Mine are lacquered drums, and maybe the loss of the wrap helps.
No question, they sound great! This particular kit needs a little help to sound its best. I don't think these issues are the same for all XP-8's, but in my experience any kit of any brand and age is different. Some need lots of help, some none at all. Tommykat1 - these are sounding great even with the wraps. :blackeye:
 

SwivoNut

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I'm the type of person who can detect slight anomalies in sound, like mosquitos stomping around on the roof. I like my toms close together with the rims almost touching, so there was a lot of 1" tone robbing pipe inside the drums and it gave me fits. I trimmed the tubing off so that it didn't extend past the inside portion of the mounts and it made a world of difference. My set is made up of rewrapped orphans that I plan on keeping forever so making these modifications was not an issue.
 

Sonorholic

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If they really sound that bad to you when set up comfortably, I'd just go to rims mounts with Ludwig brackets/tom holder and not cut down the tom arms. That's one advantage of rims is that you don't have to use stock hardware. But they're your drums so...
 

tillerva

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These drums were coming out, what when disco and the preferred dead tone were exiting? Makes sense then that tone wasn't king, though they really promoted the shell quality, which is great.

Thanks for the post Tommy, very interesting!
 

troutstudio

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Memrilok and the Pearl version of this mounting system were the reason that RIMS mounts were invented. The fact is, these systems were invented with no regard to the sound of the drums. Only the concept of being able to set them up consistently the same. I was a Pearl endorser when the new 7/8" tube type mounts were introduced in 1977. They were going to retrofit my drumsets one at a time. After the first set was finished, I was at the cartage warehouse trying to prep the drums for a recording session. My drums that had previously sounded and recorded so great, were choked and had different decay times from drum to drum. Around and around we went. I called my friend Larrie Londin. he was having the same issues. He had cut tubes and filled tubes with caulk and everything else you could think of. Some drums sounded more open if you moved them further onto the tube, and some sounded better further back. I continued to use my session sets that were on the old hex-rod hardware, which also had a nylon bushing in the tom mount. Meanwhile, we tried putting a foam rubber gasket on the inside and outside of the tom mounts on the "memory lock" drums. We also put plastic sleeves around the mounting screws. This was getting pretty close to "isolating " the drum from the hardware. It helped, but was not perfect. I used this system for a couple of years. I used this drumset more as the #3 set, which means that I was still doing records mostly with the drums with the older hardware on them. This set got used more on TV and live shows. Then we heard about a guy in Minneapolis, by the name of Gary Gauger. He was making this thing called a RIMS mount. RIMS mounts flowed into Nashville like you wouldn't believe. :icon_smile:
Exactly. Unless you have done exactly as you did - spent time listening to the drums in every different location on and off the tube, you wouldn't get this thread. I did the same thing with my Pearl GLX kit. And it's not just a noticeable difference in resonance. It's the way the stick rebounds off the head. And has been said here before; it varies from drum to drum; and tuning ranges too. I was given a set of RIMS at the time and they stayed on until I was given a set of Pearl Optimounts. Even these don't work as well as the RIMS (which I had put onto a Rogers kit). I played the Pearls last night and the toms are so resonant and long anyway, that the Optimounts are fine. But in my experience, the Rogers toms, being thinner, suffer more from the problem. I have cut the tubes. It can work. Plugging too - new Pearl tom arms are capped now. But suspended mounts is the only real solution, imo. I just like my toms to sound (and feel) completely free. No super hearing required . . .
 


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